ALPA National changes policy, now supports Age 65 retirement

[BoilerUP]

Hope you folks that were apathetic to this change don't mind your career being postponed another 5 years; you'll never makeup the lost income.

Please be sure to tell those who benefitted their whole careers from advancement due to Age 60 but recently decided such rule was unfair "your welcome"...because their windfall is at your expense.

 

[shroomwell]

.....

 

[ranger17]

Checkoff another box against ALPA for my pros vs cons of ALPA vs. SAPA box.

 

[Speedtape]

Checkoff another box against ALPA for my pros vs cons of ALPA vs. SAPA box.

What has SAPA done to advance your career, advance your pay and benefits, protect your jobs, and promote safety in the industry?

Nothing!!!!!!!!!!!! You and your pilot group have benefited in these areas more from the efforts of ALPA and it's existence, even though it's not on your property!

CHECK OFF THAT BOX!

 

[Speedtape]

Hope you folks that were apathetic to this change don't mind your career being postponed another 5 years; you'll never makeup the lost income.

Please be sure to tell those who benefitted their whole careers from advancement due to Age 60 but recently decided such rule was unfair "your welcome"...because their windfall is at your expense.

The change was coming, thanks to the FAA, and Congress! In addition, some of the companies are probably favoring it. If there is a pilot shortage, this will help with supply as demand grows over the next few years. No matter what side of the issue you are on, the government is making the change.

 

[texarkana]

flaaaaaaaaame

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Only a fool would think that the United States was going to be the only country not adopting this.

 

[Bako Cap]

Only a fool would have expected ALPA to support the majority of their membership.

 

[Speedtape]

Only a fool would have expected ALPA to support the majority of their membership.

Actually, ALPA did support the majority. There was a new vote and 80% supported the change with restrictions.

 

[d328pilot]

80% of the executive council... hardly relfective of the entire membership.

 

[ERJFO]

How many RJ FO's are on the Executive Council?

 

[d328pilot]

I am corrected, it was the executive board. It consists of MEC chairmen, so I would assume that 0 were RJ FOs.

 

[CoAlpha]

lame, alpa is pure crap

 

[Poahi]

There are a few things about this course reversal which have become obvious to me:

1. There is no science behind it and safety has played no part in the debate.
2. It is a wealth transfer from junior pilots to senior ones.
3. This change takes away momentum for increasing pay and work rules and sends the message that ALPA has given up the will to fight.
4. It makes it easier for the Skybuses of the world to find pilots and will keep pilots at regionals for years longer.


ALPA's acquiescence on this issue makes ALPA irrelevant.

 

[fly4funcrj]

The bottom line is Alpa needs(wants) more money in the form of dues. If guys retire at 65 thats 5 more years of higher paying dues members paying alpa for their "second to none" services (sarcastic).. what's done is done.. Now it's time to move on.

 

[d328pilot]

So no more cheap shots for the Skybus and VA guys. The quality of life there has to be better than staying in the regionals for another 5 years.

 

[Prop2Jet]

I think 65 sucks why would we want to work more? O yeah I know why, if we have not planned responsibly with our money to ensure a good retirement! I guess I would need those 5 more years.....

 

[Speedtape]

There are a few things about this course reversal which have become obvious to me:

1. There is no science behind it and safety has played no part in the debate.
2. It is a wealth transfer from junior pilots to senior ones.
3. This change takes away momentum for increasing pay and work rules and sends the message that ALPA has given up the will to fight.
4. It makes it easier for the Skybuses of the world to find pilots and will keep pilots at regionals for years longer.


ALPA's acquiescence on this issue makes ALPA irrelevant.

Actually, the rule was going to change irregardless of ALPA's position. As I understand it, it was a roll call vote where each local Chairman voted the total number of members on his property.

The bottom line was, the rule was going to change--period! In order for ALPA to have a seat at the table in implementing the details, they had to change their position. Otherwise, you would have had Congress and government workers imposing restrictions on your work group without input from the largest pilot union. Government without representation would have allowed some convoluted changes to be made that may have affected even those under 60.

In the end, because of ALPA's change in position, they will have a strong voice in the process. It's political, but that is the way it is.

The other option was for ALPA was to hold their position and sit on the sidelines, with some 60,000 pilots having no representation during the legislative and implementation process. This was a no brainer.

It may be political, but I want my union having strong input into those kind of changes. I certainly don't want it left to professional politicians, governement workers, and other special interests groups.

 

[shroomwell]

This is all B.S. ALPA should have continued to support the majority and fight against it, perhaps they could have compromised and gone with age 62. Now with no opposition to it there will be no compromising. Instead ALPA is going to fight to make sure that FAA medical standards are not changed to ICAO so the old farts won't be booted from the left seat. Pretty clear to me.

 

[ASARJMan]

This is all B.S. ALPA should have continued to support the majority

Well old wise one, maybe ALPA IS supporting the majority (the recent poll perhaps) and understanding that Congress is going to change it regardless of what ALPA does. Just deal with it. You'll get your turn in the left seat.

 

[belchfire]

Hope you folks that were apathetic to this change don't mind your career being postponed another 5 years; you'll never makeup the lost income.

Please be sure to tell those who benefitted their whole careers from advancement due to Age 60 but recently decided such rule was unfair "your welcome"...because their windfall is at your expense.

Boiler, not many people are going to get out of the RJ payscale for a long time regardless. The flip side is that we will be able to get the high end pay five years longer and with any luck the pilot group will by then have grown a little fortitude and gotten the payscales back where they belong.

Given that our federal government has allowed the defaulting on many defined benifit programs you really should give those guys a chance to do something for themselves also...they didn't know that the unions would cave in on them.

 

[BoilerUP]

Given that our federal government has allowed the defaulting on many defined benifit programs you really should give those guys a chance to do something for themselves also...they didn't know that the unions would cave in on them.

They are the union, Belch. If folks really think the union "caved in on them" then need to realize that they caved on themselves.

Likely 5 to 10 years after this change is enacted it will be nothing more than a line or two in ALPA's history...but it still doesn't change the basic fact that "giving those guys a chance to do something for themselves" is coming at my financial expense. Many older pilots had to eat a sh!t sandwich and it may or may not have been because of something they themselves did or did not do...but why make me take a bite, too?

 

[ASARJMan]

...but why make me take a bite, too?

Why not. You'll have 5 more years now to recoup. You hopefully should know what you'll have in retirement. With the airlines abusing the bankruptcy process, they raped retirements, albeit mostly from major carriers. Why shouldn't they be able to grab a little more for retirement? Why shouldn't healthy 60 year old regional pilots work a little longer to put some more retirement funds away? You can do the same, put some more $$$ away. I know, you'll say but I don't want to work 'til 65! Betcha when the time comes you'll be lobbying for 70 years old!

 

[BoilerUP]

Why not.

Worst. Reasoning. Ever. And you f**kin' boomers think my generation is selfish...

You'll have 5 more years now to recoup.

Why do folks have such a hard time realizing someone like myself will never recoup the total wealth I stand to lose with a 5 year delay in my career progression, even if I'm at the top of my earning potential for an extra 5 years?

Why shouldn't they be able to grab a little more for retirement?

I am sympathetic for the loss of pensions because it negatively affects everyone in this career ...but why should young/junior/furloughed pilots have to finance the retirement of old/senior/employed pilots? Especially when you consider these same folks have been in the very top percentiles of wage earners in the US, that emotional appeal is hogwash.

Why shouldn't healthy 60 year old regional pilots work a little longer to put some more retirement funds away?

If having enough money at retirement was an issue, why didn't "healthy 60 year old regional pilots" take a job with a much higher earning potential years ago? After all, its not like Age 60 retirement is a new thing..

I know, you'll say but I don't want to work 'til 65! Betcha when the time comes you'll be lobbying for 70 years old!

I betcha I won't. I like my job flying airplanes for a living, but I have no intention of subjecting myself to 12-14 hour duty days with 4-7 legs a day, 14-17 days a month, for 42+ years of my life.

This whole change from 60 to 65 retirement doesn't have anything to do with becoming ICAO-standard or abolishing age discrimination. It does have everything to do with $$$. Age 65 is just as arbitrary an age as 60 is, its just 5 years later. It is entirely possible that in 1, 5, 10 or 20 years I'll look back and be thankful for all this and wonder why ALPA hadn't been more proactive...but I seriously doubt it.

 

[Poahi]

Actually, the rule was going to change irregardless of ALPA's position.

Had the ALPA BOD been sitting in the back on flight 93, it would have crashed in to the White House.

Resignation is a sign of weakness.

 

[NoJoy]

I was involved in the first poll for age 65 that ALPA sent out. I don't remember them sending out another poll. 80% is pretty high for the "in-house" vote. Very interesting. As I was reading the latest ALPA news letter, one thing that caught my eye was they wanted to get rid of the "one pilot in the flightdeck younger than 60 part" . I am totally opposed to this. One person in the flightdeck needs to be younger than 60, and that person is the CA! Period. If ALPA has given up on the fight on the age 60 rule-so be it. Re-direct efforts on the change itself.
1. The CA has to be younger than 60. If they want to keep flying, do it from the right seat.
2. Make the change gradual. Having the age suddenly go to 65 overnight will only aid those in upper seniorty of every airline-the minority. Have this age 60 change be in increments. Raise the retirement age one year at a time until it is at 65. (five year process) This will be much more managable for most pilots to adjust to for hireing purposes and internal growth at a given airline.
3. Make darn sure that the medical qualifications do not increase across the board so that a few pilots get to keep flying. This may eliminate pilots who would otherwise pass the current physical. I see nother wrong with the 1st. class medical being extended for one year, then every 6 months for those wanting to fly beyond age 60.

 

[ranger17]

What has SAPA done to advance your career, advance your pay and benefits, protect your jobs, and promote safety in the industry?

Nothing!!!!!!!!!!!! You and your pilot group have benefited in these areas more from the efforts of ALPA and it's existence, even though it's not on your property!

CHECK OFF THAT BOX!

SAPA has done nothing for me since I am just starting out here. I spent 3 yrs at a alpa carrier (PDT) with nothing but getting a big slap in the face from our "brothers" at mainline USAIR concerning a flow. I have not made a decsion yet which way I would vote yet, I need to spend time on the line and talk to people that have been here for awhile and get a feel for the company. I am just saying that this another example of how a majority of ALPA pilots do not want age 65 but there leadership comes out in favor. Who cares if its going to be passed by congress anyway, why give up the fight and roll over. ALPA talks alot about standing up for its membership, so stand up already ALPA.

 

[Speedtape]

SAPA has done nothing for me since I am just starting out here. I spent 3 yrs at a alpa carrier (PDT) with nothing but getting a big slap in the face from our "brothers" at mainline USAIR concerning a flow. I have not made a decsion yet which way I would vote yet, I need to spend time on the line and talk to people that have been here for awhile and get a feel for the company. I am just saying that this another example of how a majority of ALPA pilots do not want age 65 but there leadership comes out in favor. Who cares if its going to be passed by congress anyway, why give up the fight and roll over. ALPA talks alot about standing up for its membership, so stand up already ALPA.

They did stand up for their membership! Maybe, you didn't get the latest update since you don't work for an ALPA carrier. ALPA does not operate in a vacuum. The change was coming like a freight train.

The leadership elected to educate the membership on the inevitable change, and the membership decided to be a part of the process and have a part in the crafting of the change. Otherwise, we could have held our position in opposition, and not have been able to participate in that process. People who had no vested interest in the outcome, that would affect us all, would have made the rules which could have turned out to be quite onerous, even possibly affecting the under 60 crowd.

So, the choice was: sit on the sidelines in opposition, or become a participating proponent and help craft the changes. I want my union proactively representing my interests, keeping me informed, and advocating for me on the National political scene. ALPA responded appropriately and timely. I don't want ALPA practicing the "Ostrich Theory" of sticking it's head in a hole in the ground when danger is approaching. We will now have a seat at the table and will be able to influence the changes in a way that will be positive, not only for our 60,000+ members, but also for those who are not members. Yes, it's Politics; play the game or get bulldozed over on the sidelines and whine.

 

[CoAlpha]

alpa threw pdt under the bus years ago, i want my dues back (wont happen) I know what alpo thinks of regionals, been there had the bus run over me. there will be no alpa at skyw.

next question

 

[Huck]

You can do the same, put some more $$$ away.

THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL BE CAPTAINS FOR 5 MORE YEARS.

THE REST OF US WILL BE F/O'S FOR 5 MORE YEARS.

AND GET 5 YEARS LESS RETIREMENT.

AND DIE SOONER......