ALPA loses latest appeal in TWA lawsuit...

[Dan Roman]

Food for thought.....how was Ozark treated when TWA bought them? Hint, pretty similar to the way AA treated TWA. I know I know, two wrongs don't make a right, but it is food for thought when you consider that now AA is on the block and they mistreated TWA who mistreated Ozark..........

 

[Mamma]

So, your saying both TWA and St. Louis suck? Even make me want more...

St Louis sucks. Spent a lot of time there. Do like Lacledes Landing though! As far as TWA sucking...I was not saying that in regards to the people but the equipment. Anyway, you can want as much as you like! Just don't expect emotion to deliver.

 

[TWA Dude]

Food for thought.....how was Ozark treated when TWA bought them? Hint, pretty similar to the way AA treated TWA. I know I know, two wrongs don't make a right, but it is food for thought when you consider that now AA is on the block and they mistreated TWA who mistreated Ozark..........

Point of fact: any TWAers who had anything to do with the Ozark merger were long gone by 2001.

And for the record I support binding arbitration to settle any seniority integration. No pilot group should ever be able to take advantage of another.

 

[KarmaPolice]

This case is very far from over. First of all, the damages phase does not guarantee anyone any damages. The jury in the damages trial can easily come back and say "yes, ALPA violated its DFR obligation as the first jury said, but they are not liable for any damages." Alternatively, damages could be awarded, but be minuscule. For example, ALPA lost a DFR case a long time ago that went to the damages phase, and the damages jury awarded the plaintiffs $1. Any claims you're hearing of outrageous damages should be ignored. It's highly unlikely.

Furthermore, even if a damages award is made by the jury, ALPA can then appeal, and there are many reasons to believe that an appeals court would overturn this verdict. I would expect this to drag out for several more years, unless a settlement is reached.

Ok. Thanks for the info!

 

[rjacobs]

Point of fact: any TWAers who had anything to do with the Ozark merger were long gone by 2001.

If you are talking about people involved in how that merger went down, then probably yes, however there were and still are quite a few Ozark people still flying at AA.

 

[Dan Roman]

Point of fact: any TWAers who had anything to do with the Ozark merger were long gone by 2001.

And for the record I support binding arbitration to settle any seniority integration. No pilot group should ever be able to take advantage of another.

Agreed, There are too many emotions and different perspectives to ever be able to combine two seniority lists in a reasonable manner. It really should be decided by an impartial arbitration process, providing everyone agrees to accept it and not renege on giving their word like one group we all know did......

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

386 aa pilots were not stapled , they where hired after the merger was underway. They are the junior pilots Doh!

Exactly. And the TWA pilots waived all rights of seniority. So, in theory the TWA could have been stapled below the new hires but were not. Remember, the TWA pilots did agree to waiving all rights of seniority and yet the entire group was not stapled.

Was it ugly for the TWA pilots? Yep. I will concede that, however it was not a staple.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Hey LeeRoy,

What happened to that quote you have in the bottom of your tagline? That user name isn't even shown anymore.

Don't know.

The username is no longer listed?

 

[100 c.i.]

Food for thought.....how was Ozark treated when TWA bought them? Hint, pretty similar to the way AA treated TWA. I know I know, two wrongs don't make a right, but it is food for thought when you consider that now AA is on the block and they mistreated TWA who mistreated Ozark..........

They got DOH period.

 

[eaglesview]

1 On strike with EAL. The president Duffy (DAL) gets very few if any striking Eastern pilots on with DAL...
2 UAL goes through there bad time with Duane (NWA) who tells us there is no money in the war chest for us....majically there is money when NWA needs it. At the same time my "ALPA brothers" at NWA and DAL are actually writing letters to Washington to convince them NOT to allow UAL any ATSB money. One of the two carriers that was actually attacked during 9/11
3 Later ALPA "forgives" all of my "new Coworkers" who crossed picket lines in 83 and the crews that walked right by us in 89 when we were on strike at EAL.

ALPA can not get flushed fast enough in my opinion.

 

[Dizel8]

ALPA, despite it warts, are still the best thing we pilots have going for us.

 

[Dan Roman]

ALPA, despite it warts, are still the best thing we pilots have going for us.

Absolutely, most of it's criticism seems to ignore the fact that certain economic realities are out of their hand, they can't save the jobs of pilots working for inept or scrupulous management and ALPA is only as good as it's local reps and members make it. It's not ALPA nationals fault for many of the decisions individual airline groups have made.

 

[aa73]

64% of the pilots were stapled, 14 year captain stapled behind a new hire. Fact. I lived it.

Not to cherry pick but the exact percentage was more like 53% stapled, 47% integrated, a little more than half. Remarkably similar to the percentage of OZ pilots tacked on to the bottom of TWA under their Date of Hire integration (the same arbitrator was used in both deals.. no kidding.)

 

[aa73]

They got DOH period.

Yes, correct - they got DOH. However, the hiring demographics between OZ and TWA during those years resulted in approx. 55% of OZ pilots ending up on the bottom of the TWA List, despite DOH.

No different than if AA merges with Jetblue and gives them DOH - guess where the Jetblue pilots will end up?

 

[ironspud]

Yes, correct - they got DOH. However, the hiring demographics between OZ and TWA during those years resulted in approx. 55% of OZ pilots ending up on the bottom of the TWA List, despite DOH.

No different than if AA merges with Jetblue and gives them DOH - guess where the Jetblue pilots will end up?

...and the OZ Captains were seat protected for 3 years.

 

[dicko]

Ok. Thanks for the info!

Consider the source and their motivation with care.

If 1000 people witnessed Lee Moak carrying bags of cash into his house and burning his ALPA computers - PCL128 would describe it as a "clear victory for ALPA and big win for its members".

 

[Turtle21]

1 On strike with EAL. The president Duffy (DAL) gets very few if any striking Eastern pilots on with DAL...
2 UAL goes through there bad time with Duane (NWA) who tells us there is no money in the war chest for us....majically there is money when NWA needs it. At the same time my "ALPA brothers" at NWA and DAL are actually writing letters to Washington to convince them NOT to allow UAL any ATSB money. One of the two carriers that was actually attacked during 9/11
3 Later ALPA "forgives" all of my "new Coworkers" who crossed picket lines in 83 and the crews that walked right by us in 89 when we were on strike at EAL.

ALPA can not get flushed fast enough in my opinion.

+ plus 1

 

[Turtle21]

Does anybody know what this is going to mean for the membership. The Damages hearing is set for October, and rumor is that it will be more than the insurance can pay.

Will there be a dues increase or assessment?

Thanks.

Dream scenario.. Insurance pays max limit which doesn't cover whole bill, ALPA assesses the rest on members, which is so high they decertify and never pay, but all have new unions. Everyone that deserves to lives happily ever after. The End.

 

[B6Driver]

seriously?

Food for thought.....how was Ozark treated when TWA bought them? Hint, pretty similar to the way AA treated TWA. I know I know, two wrongs don't make a right, but it is food for thought when you consider that now AA is on the block and they mistreated TWA who mistreated Ozark..........

Danny boy, you're not a student of history are you?
Ozark received DOH with fences and you can Google it very easily.
I’ve heard the unfounded complaints and the facts shot them down in short order.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Absolutely, most of it's criticism seems to ignore the fact that certain economic realities are out of their hand, they can't save the jobs of pilots working for inept or scrupulous management and ALPA is only as good as it's local reps and members make it. It's not ALPA nationals fault for many of the decisions individual airline groups have made.

Really ? Want to try telling that to my "eastie brothers from another mother ? " Seems they didn't get the memo.:erm:


By the way, I agree.

PHXFLYR