ALPA loses latest appeal in TWA lawsuit...

[KarmaPolice]

Does anybody know what this is going to mean for the membership. The Damages hearing is set for October, and rumor is that it will be more than the insurance can pay.

Will there be a dues increase or assessment?

Thanks.

 

[Flybywire44]

Could DALPA and UALPA decertify over it?

 

[doh]

Link?

 

[redflyer65]

Standby for huge damages for ALPA. All thanks to Duane Worthless trying to get APA back in the fold.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Dalpa told me not to worry, thats why we have insurance...:erm:

 

[KarmaPolice]

Unless ALPA can win an appeal, which is looking more and more futile, the damages are going to be in the hundreds of millions. The former TWA pilots can show how much money they lost by being stapled, rather than integrated into the seniority list, and ALPA is going to have to pay.

Are there any ALPA people out there who can shed some light on how this is NOT going find its way to my checking account? Or maybe you want to tell me how this is a good deal for me?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Could DALPA and UALPA decertify over it?

It's hard to imagine this happening at Delta. If it does, it will be the fNWA people who primarily will carry the vote. I know the DPA has over 5000 members signed up. The question is, can they get all the cards in? Is this TWA mess big enough to get a decertification?

 

[densoo]

Are there any ALPA people out there who can shed some light on how this is NOT going find its way to my checking account?

Would it be too much to hope that the organization that wants to sell me 15 different types of insurance at exorbitant rates would themselves have liability insurance to cover such a situation? he asked rhetorically.

 

[freightdogfred]

Duane Woerth will forever be known as the man who sunk the good ship ALPA

 

[amcnd]

Dalpa told me not to worry, thats why we have insurance...:erm:

Guess alpa's insurance rates will go up... So dues will go up

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Unless ALPA can win an appeal, which is looking more and more futile, the damages are going to be in the hundreds of millions. The former TWA pilots can show how much money they lost by being stapled, rather than integrated into the seniority list, and ALPA is going to have to pay.

Are there any ALPA people out there who can shed some light on how this is NOT going find its way to my checking account? Or maybe you want to tell me how this is a good deal for me?

Point of order. The TWA pilots were not stapled.

Not pretty for them, but they were not stapled.

 

[bendover]

64% of the pilots were stapled, 14 year captain stapled behind a new hire. Fact. I lived it.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

64% of the pilots were stapled, 14 year captain stapled behind a new hire. Fact. I lived it.

386 AA pilots were stapled at the bottom of the list.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

I find it hard to believe that ALPA's Kitty Hawk in-house insurance company doesn't have assets to cover a 500 M loss. That said, if they don't, I see us going back to 5% dues everyone paid in the 80s after the MCF was depleted. That would be the final blow for ALPA, imo. I could definitely see DAL bolting, followed by CAL/UAL.

 

[bendover]

386 aa pilots were not stapled , they where hired after the merger was underway. They are the junior pilots Doh!

 

[redflyer65]

Point of order. The TWA pilots were not stapled.

Not pretty for them, but they were not stapled.

Hey LeeRoy,

What happened to that quote you have in the bottom of your tagline? That user name isn't even shown anymore.

 

[AA717driver]

There will be a last minute (during the damages trial) settlement. It will still be a big number but not fatal for ALPA.

All IMO, of course.

TC

 

[Mamma]

I don't think the damages will be much if anything. Even if ALPA did their best, I don't know if the result would have been much better. To say a bankrupt, going out of business airline with a crappy hub (STL) and old crappy planes was going to merge in any way that would be good for the pilots seems farfetched. I'm not exonerating ALPA, but proving you would have received a better deal might be difficult....in regards to monetary losses.

 

[100 c.i.]

I don't think the damages will be much if anything. Even if ALPA did their best, I don't know if the result would have been much better. To say a bankrupt, going out of business airline with a crappy hub (STL) and old crappy planes was going to merge in any way that would be good for the pilots seems farfetched. I'm not exonerating ALPA, but proving you would have received a better deal might be difficult....in regards to monetary losses.

So, your saying both TWA and St. Louis suck? Even make me want more...

 

[PCL_128]

Unless ALPA can win an appeal, which is looking more and more futile, the damages are going to be in the hundreds of millions. The former TWA pilots can show how much money they lost by being stapled, rather than integrated into the seniority list, and ALPA is going to have to pay.

Are there any ALPA people out there who can shed some light on how this is NOT going find its way to my checking account? Or maybe you want to tell me how this is a good deal for me?

This case is very far from over. First of all, the damages phase does not guarantee anyone any damages. The jury in the damages trial can easily come back and say "yes, ALPA violated its DFR obligation as the first jury said, but they are not liable for any damages." Alternatively, damages could be awarded, but be minuscule. For example, ALPA lost a DFR case a long time ago that went to the damages phase, and the damages jury awarded the plaintiffs $1. Any claims you're hearing of outrageous damages should be ignored. It's highly unlikely.

Furthermore, even if a damages award is made by the jury, ALPA can then appeal, and there are many reasons to believe that an appeals court would overturn this verdict. I would expect this to drag out for several more years, unless a settlement is reached.

 

[Dan Roman]

Food for thought.....how was Ozark treated when TWA bought them? Hint, pretty similar to the way AA treated TWA. I know I know, two wrongs don't make a right, but it is food for thought when you consider that now AA is on the block and they mistreated TWA who mistreated Ozark..........

 

[Mamma]

So, your saying both TWA and St. Louis suck? Even make me want more...

St Louis sucks. Spent a lot of time there. Do like Lacledes Landing though! As far as TWA sucking...I was not saying that in regards to the people but the equipment. Anyway, you can want as much as you like! Just don't expect emotion to deliver.

 

[TWA Dude]

Food for thought.....how was Ozark treated when TWA bought them? Hint, pretty similar to the way AA treated TWA. I know I know, two wrongs don't make a right, but it is food for thought when you consider that now AA is on the block and they mistreated TWA who mistreated Ozark..........

Point of fact: any TWAers who had anything to do with the Ozark merger were long gone by 2001.

And for the record I support binding arbitration to settle any seniority integration. No pilot group should ever be able to take advantage of another.

 

[KarmaPolice]

This case is very far from over. First of all, the damages phase does not guarantee anyone any damages. The jury in the damages trial can easily come back and say "yes, ALPA violated its DFR obligation as the first jury said, but they are not liable for any damages." Alternatively, damages could be awarded, but be minuscule. For example, ALPA lost a DFR case a long time ago that went to the damages phase, and the damages jury awarded the plaintiffs $1. Any claims you're hearing of outrageous damages should be ignored. It's highly unlikely.

Furthermore, even if a damages award is made by the jury, ALPA can then appeal, and there are many reasons to believe that an appeals court would overturn this verdict. I would expect this to drag out for several more years, unless a settlement is reached.

Ok. Thanks for the info!

 

[rjacobs]

Point of fact: any TWAers who had anything to do with the Ozark merger were long gone by 2001.

If you are talking about people involved in how that merger went down, then probably yes, however there were and still are quite a few Ozark people still flying at AA.

 

[Dan Roman]

Point of fact: any TWAers who had anything to do with the Ozark merger were long gone by 2001.

And for the record I support binding arbitration to settle any seniority integration. No pilot group should ever be able to take advantage of another.

Agreed, There are too many emotions and different perspectives to ever be able to combine two seniority lists in a reasonable manner. It really should be decided by an impartial arbitration process, providing everyone agrees to accept it and not renege on giving their word like one group we all know did......

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

386 aa pilots were not stapled , they where hired after the merger was underway. They are the junior pilots Doh!

Exactly. And the TWA pilots waived all rights of seniority. So, in theory the TWA could have been stapled below the new hires but were not. Remember, the TWA pilots did agree to waiving all rights of seniority and yet the entire group was not stapled.

Was it ugly for the TWA pilots? Yep. I will concede that, however it was not a staple.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Hey LeeRoy,

What happened to that quote you have in the bottom of your tagline? That user name isn't even shown anymore.

Don't know.

The username is no longer listed?

 

[100 c.i.]

Food for thought.....how was Ozark treated when TWA bought them? Hint, pretty similar to the way AA treated TWA. I know I know, two wrongs don't make a right, but it is food for thought when you consider that now AA is on the block and they mistreated TWA who mistreated Ozark..........

They got DOH period.

 

[eaglesview]

1 On strike with EAL. The president Duffy (DAL) gets very few if any striking Eastern pilots on with DAL...
2 UAL goes through there bad time with Duane (NWA) who tells us there is no money in the war chest for us....majically there is money when NWA needs it. At the same time my "ALPA brothers" at NWA and DAL are actually writing letters to Washington to convince them NOT to allow UAL any ATSB money. One of the two carriers that was actually attacked during 9/11
3 Later ALPA "forgives" all of my "new Coworkers" who crossed picket lines in 83 and the crews that walked right by us in 89 when we were on strike at EAL.

ALPA can not get flushed fast enough in my opinion.