ALPA "Express?"

[Typhoon1244]

I just took my ATP certificate out of my wallet and looked it over...just to make sure. It says I'm an "Airline Transport Pilot" who holds type ratings in the EMB-120 and CL-65. It was issued by the F.A.A., the same Administration that licenses major airline pilots.

The word "Express" doesn't appear anywhere.

I had gotten used to being treated like a second-class citizen by passengers and a handful of my mainline bretheren. But now, to have my own union putting me into my own little box with my own cute little newsletter? (I already had a newsletter from my union: it's called Air Line Pilot magazine!)

It's possible that Mister Woerth and his mindless staff were attempting to make us feel included by changing our name (from "Regional" to "Express") and creating this newsletter, to show us how concerned they are about us. All they showed me is that they're not only committed to keeping the wedge between us and the mainlines, they want to drive it deeper. What's next, new smaller ALPA pins for "Express Pilots?"

I'm not an RJDC member, and I haven't been disappointed in ALPA before...but I am now. Is this what I'm paying dues for?

ALPA members are all airline pilots! "Regional" at least had the virtue of being inaccurate. "Express" is just insulting.

Mister Woerth needs to wake up and smell the coffee before his "Express" pilots go looking for their own union. I hope he runs his cockpit with more intelligence than he shepherds this organization.

 

[LearLove]

F that Crap

Whatever I'm a COMMUTER PILOT and proud of it.

 

[Brett Hull]

Capt. Woerth

Is Big Duane an active airline pilot, or would that be a conflict of interest?

 

[LearLove]

And another thing.......

J-3 Cub to Concorde, F-4 Phantom to Shorts 360 they will all KILL YOU JUST THE SAME.

 

[surplus1]

Re: F that Crap

Whatever I'm a COMMUTER PILOT and proud of it.

Have you considered moving to your domicile? You might have more off days by eliminating the commute.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Ty,

With all due respect, I think you might be just a tad defensive. I have heard many on this board complain that the wants and needs of regional pilots are being ignored. While this is admittedly just a tiny step, it is a step none the less. You are still getting your Air Line Pilot magazine, the union has just decided to print up another publication which, I assume, deals primarily with issues more germane to your segmant of the industry. I would think that it would make for enjoyable reading. If the name upsets you, I would advise you to grow a bit thicker skin. It's just a name. Most of the regional carriers do go by "Express." I suppose it could have been called "Connection," but does it really matter?

In retrospect, I think it is I who should be a little peeved. After all, you get two magazines, and I only get one. When is ALPA going to start treating me and my major brothers equally??!!

Lighten up. I would view it as an olive branch. Perhaps more will follow. (Hopefully from both sides)

 

[Typhoon1244]

...the union has just decided to print up another publication which, I assume, deals primarily with issues more germane to your segmant of the industry.

Should we also crank out newsletters for widebody pilots? International pilots? Furloughed pilots? Look, the newsletter is not what really bothers me...except that I'd prefer my dues be used for something useful, like pushing Universal Access for pilots.

If the name upsets you, I would advise you to grow a bit thicker skin. It's just a name. Most of the regional carriers do go by "Express." I suppose it could have been called "Connection," but does it really matter?

Ask "colored" people if names really matter. "Express" is just another way of segregating pilot groups within ALPA. Hold on, this is going to come as a shock to you: my concerns are not significantly different from yours or those of any other ALPA member. I want to make as much money as practical and be treated fairly.

If ALPA has to waste time and energy trying to find a name for those of us flying RJ's, then maybe they need to reconsider whether or not we belong in this union.

In retrospect, I think it is I who should be a little peeved. After all, you get two magazines, and I only get one. When is ALPA going to start treating me and my major brothers equally??!!

I'll make you a deal. Give me your major paycheck and I'll let you have both my magazines.

Lighten up. I would view it as an olive branch.

Yeah, and when ALPA begins adopting policies and procedures that don't apply to "Express" pilots, what kind of branch will that be?

When Mister Woerth can look me in the eye and tell me that he recognizes that he and I do the same job, then I'll "lighten up."

 

[LR25]

Hey Typhoon,

The same job, more hours, less automation (in my case), less money.

I know, I know, those are givens.

We have to put our dues in right, but if some gets lucky and gets a mainline job and doesnt do the "regional" thing, wheres the difference in the pilot?

I have said before, the unions create the difference, but the pilots carry it on.

Where did all the animosity come from???

Its like road rage, your driving responsibly, someone behind you is flashing lights, gesturing, causing a scene, they get closer and its your neighbor.

 

[surplus1]

Hey Ty,

You've hit this one right between the eyes.

About that olive branch bit......... that's what the tag reads, but if you look closely at the leaves.... not olive .... hemlock.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

You know, you guys are right. I stand corrected. As a matter of fact, I now have a complaint of my own. Wait until you hear what ALPA has done now. Every quarter they publish...get this...a newsletter just for Delta pilots! The Widget. What an insulting name. When are they going to realize that we are all just pilots?

The fact is, TY, that you do have different concerns than we. I have been told this since I signed up for this board (my first mistake!). Many of you seem to be concerned about our scope clause (unreasonably), many are concerned about J4J. And all of us, on both sides of the fence, are concerned about the two-tier wage system. I have not read the newsletter, but if its subject matter contains ways to deal with the last problem, is it really so bad?

You want to be angry? Fine. There are lots of things out there to be angry about. I'm pretty angry myself right now. But getting upset because ALPA has mailed you some additional information sounds a little bit petty and melodramatic to me. These are two qualities that you normally don't display.

If the newsletter upsets you, don't read it. If something with substance upsets you, post it, and I'll be happy to discuss solutions. But like the "Widget," this seems to be just a newsletter. I really can't get too wrapped up in a discussion about it. You guys want to have a sob party, enjoy. But I have to tell you, it really does sound pretty whiny.

 

[jppt2000]

You want to be angry? Fine. There are lots of things out there to be angry about. I'm pretty angry myself right now.

I believe you said you were out on furlough.
Wait till the LCC at Delta starts up and you find yourself flying long hours for pennies.
I didn't think Ty was upset about getting a magazine.
He was making a point about ALPA's feeble attempt to rename or rebrand a new magazine. Still segregating RJ pilots from main group of pilots.
You mainline guys use the same tactic. When you have no substance to your claims, make up stuff that sounds good to you.
Remember your RJ bretheren, they are helping keep Delta afloat while you are out, shame on you.

 

[Britpilot]

Should we also crank out newsletters for widebody pilots? International pilots? Furloughed pilots? Look, the newsletter is not what really bothers me...except that I'd prefer my dues be used for something useful, like pushing Universal Access for pilots.

Ask "colored" people if names really matter. "Express" is just another way of segregating pilot groups within ALPA. Hold on, this is going to come as a shock to you: my concerns are not significantly different from yours or those of any other ALPA member. I want to make as much money as practical and be treated fairly.

If ALPA has to waste time and energy trying to find a name for those of us flying RJ's, then maybe they need to reconsider whether or not we belong in this union.

I'll make you a deal. Give me your major paycheck and I'll let you have both my magazines.


.

Yeah, and when ALPA begins adopting policies and procedures that don't apply to "Express" pilots, what kind of branch will that be?

When Mister Woerth can look me in the eye and tell me that he recognizes that he and I do the same job, then I'll "lighten up."

I have to agree with you on this issue. I too received this publication as did everyone here at XJT. It was not the newsletter that annoyed me but the statement that our new name was to be "Express".
This to me reinforces the perception that we belong to a two tier union and our best interests are not being represented. I have concerns about this too I think that was the point of the posts not the mailing or intent of the newsletter.
Before anyone points this out to me, I know it says "Express" on the side of my aircraft, but does that matter? No, I don't think it does, I am an airline pilot who pays dues and I wish to be treated and represented the same as everyone else in my union, that's all.

 

[rjcap]

I took my EXPRESS newsletter and placed it with all of my ALPA correspondance.

In the trash can !!!

Thanks Duane Worthless. Keep on earning that 400k or whatever our dues are paying for.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

You mainline guys use the same tactic. When you have no substance to your claims, make up stuff that sounds good to you.
Remember your RJ bretheren, they are helping keep Delta afloat while you are out, shame on you.

Shame on me? Kiss my a$$. Have I ever gotten on here and said a single bad thing about "you rj guys?" Have I ever made anything up? I have supported every one of my posts with facts and research, yet you seem to think that you have the right to insult all of us simply because we are "mainline." Your last paragraph was a prime example. Unlike my posts, I did not find a single word of "substance" in yours. I don't judge people based on the size of their airplane or the uniform they wear. You cannot say the same.

People like you (and your numbers are growing) have a huge victim complex. It's getting awfully tiresome.

ALPA is not out to get you. Your contracts sucked before ALPA, even worse that they suck now. You are in the position that you are in for many factors, but Duane Woerth (or me) is not one of them.

You don't like the name of your newsletter. Throw it out. Fine. But give me a rational discussion, using researched facts, about how ALPA has wronged you and I will, and have, respond with an intelligent conversation. Whine about the title of a newsletter designed to make you a little more informed, and I'm afraid you just sound like a baby.

P.S.

Do you think I'm afraid of flying "long hours for pennies?" Do you think I was born a Delta pilot? Been there, done that buddy.

 

[abenaki]

FLYDELTASJETS said, "You are in the position you are for many factors, but Duane Woerth (or me) is not one of them".

I'll bet that there are about 1400 Comair pilots who would disagree with you on that statement alone.

And, BTW, I'm not one of them......

 

[Tim47SIP]

Future plans?

I cant help but wonder if this is not just a starting point for a plan of action by ALPA to establish a definite line between regional and mainline structures. With J4J's in place at U and DALPA in negotiations concerning their revised scope and furloughs, the term "Operational Integration" is the only thing really keeping ALPA from pushing the jets to mainline. That term will have to be re written to keep ALPA from having to adhear to there own by laws. With these regional jets starting to become a reality with mainline, ALPA has to come up with something to keep the slime out of the mainline rank and file. Even before this "Express" newsletter came out, there were several threads that discussed this very issue and most of them came to the same conclusion, that "operational Integration" would be a great hinderence in ALPA's overall plan.


In response to FDJ's accusers, I have never read anything that he has posted that was derogitory towards any regional pilot. As a matter of fact, he is one of the few mainline guys here that treat all of us with the greatest of respect. Ya, he has a different view than some of us, but that is what this board is for. I look forward to reading more of his posts.

 

[csmith]

Re: Future plans?

In response to FDJ's accusers, I have never read anything that he has posted that was derogitory towards any regional pilot. As a matter of fact, he is one of the few mainline guys here that treat all of us with the greatest of respect. Ya, he has a different view than some of us, but that is what this board is for. I look forward to reading more of his posts.

Yeah, Tim, I have the corner on that market, despite all evidence to the contrary. This thread, like all others, has led to the "have nots" feling sorry for themselves and having the solution to all of the "problems". Those pesky mainliners just think they can outfly, outwit, and outknow everyone. I recognized this trend after a few posts back and bowed out of the discussion. I was too busy letting sound logic get in the way of emotion.

Have fun guys.

C

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by FlyDeltasJets
You don't like the name of your newsletter. Throw it out. Fine. But give me a rational discussion, using researched facts, about how ALPA has wronged you and I will, and have, respond with an intelligent conversation.

Go back and read what I said. The magazine is not what really upsets me. (By the way, most of the newsletter was devoted to explaining the name of the newsletter. Really informative, huh?)

I'm a little disappointed that you're the only guy on this thread so far who didn't get my point. I'll say it again: ALPA has no business creating an artificial hierarchy within its membership. They can't argue that groups like the RJDC don't have a case, and then turn around and start slapping labels on "little airplane" pilots in an effort to segregate them from everybody else.

All of us, from the new-hire Beech 1900 F/O to the thirty-five year 747 captain, are airline pilots. Any label beyond that is unnecessary and divisive. If Duane and friends thought they were going to make the "express" guys feel included by taking this step, they were badly mistaken.

And for what it's worth, "Widget" is a pretty stupid name.

 

[surplus1]

FDJ

The Widget is not at all like this new "Express" publication and you of all people should know that. The Widget is an internal publication of the Delta MEC for Delta pilots (paid for by the DMEC) just like UpFront is an internal publication of the CMR MEC for Comair pilots (paid for by the CMRMEC). Neither one has anything to do with the "National" union.

The content of "Express" is also interesting. The opening "Rolling Out" article by Duane Woerth is atypical of ALPA's "separate but equal" (like separate and equal Southern schools of old)philosophy and reminiscent of another ALPA "newsletter" called Heads Up, published back in '99 to point out the "overspending" of regional MECs and teach us the realities of the BIG 10. Both help to emphasize and cement divisive differences between major/regional and do nothing to improve unity.

Additionally, the "In the News" section of the new "Espress" contains heavy doses of political spin re the recent litigation with CCAir Pilots and the ongoing RJDC litigation. The heavy spin in the latter is not even factual and is deliberately slanted against the RJDC president as though he were the "sole" litigant. Propaganda or I should say, shameless propaganda.

The Collective Bargaining section is a rehash of something that has been ongoing internally for many years, now being touted as "new". That's bogus; there is nothing new about it. Its references to the BSIC pharse are particularly amusing to those in the know and decidedly misleading to everyone else.

This publication does nothing other than make it even more clear that the ALPA maintains and wishes to continue to maintain an apartheid system that segregates its members into different groups.

I wonder why it hasn't occured to the communications folks at ALPA to create a special "Night Flyer" for the "freighter dogs" whose activities and interests are certainly more "different" than those of the passenger carrying pilots in the majors/regionals. Maybe we could call them (affectionately of course) the blue collar group as differentiated from the executives of the mainline, and the white collar labor at the regionals. Think FDX and DHL pilots would like that?

I've always been fascinated by the fact that those folks on the top of all segregated structures never seem to be able to comprehend the evils of segregation. Could it be because "they" are not its victims?

 

[surplus1]

Re: Future plans?

I cant help but wonder if this is not just a starting point for a plan of action by ALPA to establish a definite line between regional and mainline structures.

A starting point, Tim? The "line" was drawn by those who run the ALPA a long time ago. They don't need to start it, its already in place. They're just trying to maintain it.

..... the term "Operational Integration" is the only thing really keeping ALPA from pushing the jets to mainline. That term will have to be re written to keep ALPA from having to adhear to there own by laws.

Not picking on you (I mostly agree) but need to point out that the term "operational integration" is not a problem for ALPA. That is precisely why it was deliberately not defined when first inserted into ALPA's merger policy and why all attempts to define it since (at the last BOD for instance) were rejected by the powerful. It is a term as clear to ALPA as the definition of "IS" was to President Clinton.

Have no fear my friend, if and when anything in ALPA's "rules" becomes a hinderance to the big palyers, they will simply changes the rules to ensure that they win the game. That has always worked before and will be repeated. Matter of fact that's exactly how "operational integration" and "discretion of" got into the merger policy in the first place. It is also why the definition of Alter Ego was deleted.

Regards,

PS. RE your remarks about FDJ and his posts: He and I often disagree. In fact more than often, nearly always. However, I agree with what you said. He presents his views and does not attack others personally or disrespect anyone. That is why he is credible and I too look forward to his posts.

He is seldom right, but he is always nice about being wrong. (That's supposed to be funny, FDJ).