Alpa Executive Council Says No To AAA's Request To Vacate Arbitration Award.

[Wiskey Driver]

Why do you even respond to PCL's nonsence?

Here's some background on him:

Former Gulfstream pilot who paid beaucoup bucks to get his early 121 time...go as far as paying to be in a 121 cockpit.

This hypocrite then took his attitude to Pinnacle.

Somehow he became involved with ALPA and even upgraded.

PCL - you comment on what's going on as if you have some sort of expertise to draw on, but you are still the same old scumbag, just older and cockier.

- Admittedly, you have only read "most" of the award.

- You have not read the transcripts or worked for either airline.

- You believe fences would fix this because you are easily persuaded by people who are wrong - this obvious personality flaw hasn't changed as someone once convinced you that paying to sit in a 121 cockpit was a good idea while the rest of us earned our jobs the honorable way.

I'm constantly amazed at how brazen and off base you are. And the scariest part is a scumbag like yourself was involved in any way with our union.

Go away troll. Scumbag, PFT dickwads like yourself are the first to sell your brothers down the road. You'd probably lick the shoes of Gen Lee and the likes if they made you part of their crew.

If you had even the smallest modicum of integrity you'd see this situation for what it is - Your support for a group of pilots who are attempting to take a national union hostage and screw over a pilot group they see as "lesser" does not surprise me.

Ahh, is it safe to say anything to you yet or are you still pi$$ed at him??

WD.

 

[737 Pylt]

I see your gilfriend scope out RJ's let you post again careful she gets real upset when you converse with other pilots on this forum. :bawling:

Speaking of girlfriends, I hear you only bend when HPilot is in the room!:blush:
Be careful, as his girl Phxflyr gets real jealous!

AWAC, since I was with AWAC at the time when the vote came up for us to take concession to as mgt put "help save UAL" I voted and championed a no vote. AWAC was making money thus making money for UAL which in my opinion didn't warrent a pay cut for us.

:laugh:! Is that the way you see it? That must be why you tell your girl HPilot it really is 6"!

Management LIED to the pilots to get that yes vote and it was narrow as hell at that! They never gave any money to UAL and ultimatly lost the contract. The AWAC pilots took to arb and won so good on them for that!!!!

It was a meger attempt by you!

The eastshore deal was for rights to be a regional partner not a merger with AWAC.

Your version of the rjdc eh?

While personally I would have very little objection to such a deal it really doesn't make sense for the mainline.

Not when you stand to profit at their expense!

I have always felt that your mainline should own and operate your rj's however that opportunity was lost yrs ago when the big boys refused to operate "those little airplanes" bad move by ALPA on that...

WD.

That's the only part where you and I agree!

737

 

[trainer8]

Exactly how is this outside of his responsibilities? "Maintain Career expectations" is in ALPA Policy but it's never defined. In other words, it's open to interpretation. Policy makes the duly agreed-to arbitrator qualifed to make that interpretation. You can disagree with Nicolau's decision but to claim he acted improperly requires some concrete evidence. Nobody other than the AAA MEC (and I guess you) thinks the Nic Award is improper. No judge will ever question it, I guarantee you.

Using your own logic from the above quote indicates a flawed policy. Except it's not flawed...or is it? You can disagree with the policy or you can stand with it. Who's interpretation of ALPA Policy do you want to use? Yours? Nicolau's? Prater's? THe EC's? Not having definition to the policy indicates a flawed policy. Or is it supposed to be vague on purpose? Nicolau wasn't "qualified" to interpret ALPA merger Policy. He's a Fed. That definition is the responsibility of ALPA. Nicolau was to set the seniorty issue straight. ALPA is to assure it is in compliance with Policy. If there is no definition to that policy or it is open ended to be interpreted from one person to the next, the result is the debacle you have before you.

But, to you, it isn't a debacle....

 

[PCL_128]

I love you too, PositiveRate. imp:

 

[PositiveRate]

I've calmed down now. It's all good.

 

[TWA Dude]

Using your own logic from the above quote indicates a flawed policy.

Wow. You really don't seem to understand the whole process. Consider the US Constitution. It contains lots of vaguely worded laws and created judiciary to interpret them accordingly. ALPA Policy is similarly simple: if the two sides can't agree the arbitrator decides. S/he is the final judge of ALPA Merger Policy! The EC or whatever ALPA body only must act if there's impropriety. Clearly there's none in this case.

You're free to continue to claim the rules weren't followed but nobody who counts agrees with you. The AAA's MEC's attempt to extort concessions from the AWA MEC has failed and you'll soon get to find out if the threat to dump ALPA will succeed. I say it's a bluff and I'm willing to find out.

 

[Itsallsogood]

Using your own logic from the above quote indicates a flawed policy. Except it's not flawed...or is it? You can disagree with the policy or you can stand with it. Who's interpretation of ALPA Policy do you want to use? Yours? Nicolau's? Prater's? THe EC's? Not having definition to the policy indicates a flawed policy. Or is it supposed to be vague on purpose? Nicolau wasn't "qualified" to interpret ALPA merger Policy. He's a Fed. That definition is the responsibility of ALPA. Nicolau was to set the seniorty issue straight. ALPA is to assure it is in compliance with Policy. If there is no definition to that policy or it is open ended to be interpreted from one person to the next, the result is the debacle you have before you.

But, to you, it isn't a debacle....

The only problem with the award is that Nicolau keep you Piedmont DC-8 guys on the mainline list without ever interviewing for the job. With furloughees, mainline was not hiring. However I would bet "you" think that was the only correct thing and would not want that part of the award tossed.

 

[PHXFLYR]

You just can't believe how refreshing it is to see the underdog AWA group winning this fight...and doing it "smart". Nice job.

Good on ya!!

I don't think winning is the proper word,but we appreciate the sentiment just the same. I think what really helped was our Merger Comittee folks and their legal counsel and an MEC that stayed out of the way and just let them do their job. That ,coupled with excellent communications, the setting of realistic expectations for the pilot group and a politically astute MEC Chairman . If only the same quality of leadership was available to the "easties",maybe, just maybe ,we could have hammered something out at the table without having to go to mediation and ultimatly binding arbitration. One thing is for certain. regardless how this plays out and no matter where this career takes me, I'll always appreciate what those guys and gals have done.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Not true!! Now let me tell you why. AAA was shrinking and returning large a/c for regional airplanes. They were furloughed 18yrs deep which was 33% of their pilot population. Career expectation was nil and was evident in the remaining active pilots minds as they were resigning in large numbers. They had no attrition. Now, out in the west we were expanding, hiring and taking delivery of new airbus aircraft. The west by not fault of our own became stagnant. We stopped taking delivery of a/c and stopped hiring. We had a pool of applicants who had already been hired and just waiting for class dates.

The east by all accounts capitalized on our stagnation as they were calling back furloughed pilots who without this merger never had any expectation of returning to USAirways!!

They got several windfalls along the way not even counting remaining employed in the face of certain liquidation. The 757 LOU followed by the E190 arb which was a big windfall in it'self and then the ultimate insult was the top 517 getting DOH taking our top pilot from #1 to #519 Huge windfall!!!!

They never once wanted to deal fairly with us instead always insisting on DOH or kiss their a$$es!! They told (the MEC) all of their pilots that they would get DOH and would take over PHX and LAS and if there was anything left "those west people can have that"!!! The east MEC boosted their pilots expectation so high that there was no other choice at that point but to continue their path.

We on the west have sacrificed plenty to make this work and do so in the face of constant insult, I know because I was there and lived it!!! We simply refused to give anymore. They wanted ARB they got ARB and it was more than fair even though EVERY west pilot LOST relative seniority not longetivity. We got NO WINDFALL, what we got was not FK'ed by them...

WD.

Very good synopsis,Whiskey. Who was the genius that you quoted that said they would come in and take over PHX and LAS and whatever was left "those west people can have that"? Nice sentiment. Talk about "barbarians at the gate" Sheeesh.... BTW, I see you get to babysit baby brother next bid period.
That sounds like it can be real dangerous duty !!


PHXFLYR

 

[trainer8]

The only problem with the award is that Nicolau keep you Piedmont DC-8 guys on the mainline list without ever interviewing for the job.

I wasn't Piedmont.

With furloughees, mainline was not hiring. However I would bet "you" think that was the only correct thing and would not want that part of the award tossed.

While I disagree with the Award, I understand the terms each party agreed to and what they asked for. See if you can read this post and reply without a condescending unprofessional comment. There is much more at stake here. While the award is binding and each pilot group claims windfalls of the other, the bigger picture is can the airline survive while the two pilot groups devour each other over the award. Abraham Lincoln was correct in quoting the Bible when he said "A house divided cannot stand." Wake up.

As to my employment with US Airways and its relation to the arbitration award, I agree with Mr. Nicolau's refusal to honor the AWA Pilot's request to terminate the employment of 95 active US Airways pilots. The request was unprecedented, the first time in ALPA history that a group of ALPA pilots sought the termination of employment of another ALPA pilot group's pilots through binding arbitration. So much for unionism. For me, it made me wonder what animus existed to request such a decree. They simply could have asked for those 95 pilots to be placed at the very bottom of the seniority list. Instead, the AWA pilots requested job termination. That got my hackles up and I will always remember that.

The brief filed with the Arbitrator stated that the CEL pilots were "unqualified" to be major airline pilots, based upon not completing a formal interview with LCC and that they were of lesser experience. ​

"Major carriers typically require significantly greater flight experience than regional carriers...The CEL pilots...were not hired by US Airways...and there is no evidence that they would have been qualified for pilot positions at US Airways....In short, their placement on the list is a sham." --[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]THE AMERICA WEST PILOTS’ MERGER COMMITTEE’S POSITION [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]STATEMENT REGARDING THE STATUS OF MID-ATLANTIC [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]AIRWAYS PILOTS FROM THE COMBINED ELIGIBILITY LIST[/FONT][/FONT]​

No evidence? Nicolau saw through that "sham" and said "no." ​

My employment with LCC was based on LOAs that LCC management and ALPA agreed to. LCC management's signatures are on the document. They said "yes" to my employment through the LOAs, in effect, saying I was qualified for the job and meeting the requirements that would have been satisfied in an interview. Nicolau agreed. I am where I expected to be on the integrated list...at the bottom.​

If that is a problem for you, it seems like there are bigger problems you should be worrying about.​

T8​