ALPA chest thumpers

[CopilotDoug]

If you don't want to pay union dues then don't join a union. OR don't apply for a job in which union dues is a part of the deal.

I wouldn't mind joining a Union. One that has solidarity among its members. I don't see solidarity between any TWO carriers involved with ALPA. And you know what? I don't expect it, either. I look at ALPA realistically...a large organization with many flaws. Ultimately, and realistically, ALPA cannot provide you with the protection they imply, be it medical, job, or contract related. The responsibility for ANYTHING to get accomplished in the airlines is going to be up to the individual pilots. It's just the way it is...ALPA talks a great game, but talk is cheap.

Everything begins and ends on CapHill.... ALPA is simply a little elf amongts the tens of thousands of giants trying to get protection from its members.

Too bad the guys running for ALPA president weren't as humble when it came down to getting votes...WE'RE GONNA TAKE IT BACK!!! What's the excuse for Prater going to be when he fails at this? I know, I know, he'll just point the finger back at the pilot groups...

Can you loan your magic wand Fairy Godmother....?

Again, like a politician Prater said what he needed to say in order to get the votes. Don't tell me his campaign title was just there because it was catchy? Next thing you know, the ALPA guys will be saying "He didn't mean we'd be taking it back LITERALLY!"

I am not sure you are too familiar with how things operate. Your post suggest that by sending in your dues that is a gurantee that everything will be fine.

We all know this is NOT the case

 

[CopilotDoug]

Reading through this thread makes me realize how many of you are uninformed, and have opinions based on half truths and exagerations. If this is really the up and coming future generation of pilots then we as a group are in trouble.

TO paraphrase what JoeMerchant said in another post: Alot of pilots couldn't care one way or the other about ALPA.

And it says something: You don't need to be an ALPA guru to tell where the "better" quality of life is. You can argue this, that, and the other, but it's clear that the Regionals don't offer the living many have set as a goal. Until this improves, the regionals will effectively be viewed as 121 training programs.

What constitues informed? If you're pro-ALPA, does that qualify you as informed? I know pilots where ALPA straight up failed them (didn't live up to their words about fair representation you read in the pamphlets) Are their views and opinions not to be taken as credible since it didn't affect the pilot group as a whole?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I wouldn't mind joining a Union. One that has solidarity among its members. I don't see solidarity between any TWO carriers involved with ALPA. And you know what? I don't expect it, either. I look at ALPA realistically...a large organization with many flaws. Ultimately, and realistically, ALPA cannot provide you with the protection they imply, be it medical, job, or contract related. The responsibility for ANYTHING to get accomplished in the airlines is going to be up to the individual pilots. It's just the way it is...ALPA talks a great game, but talk is cheap.

Too bad the guys running for ALPA president weren't as humble when it came down to getting votes...WE'RE GONNA TAKE IT BACK!!! What's the excuse for Prater going to be when he fails at this? I know, I know, he'll just point the finger back at the pilot groups...
Again, like a politician Prater said what he needed to say in order to get the votes. Don't tell me his campaign title was just there because it was catchy? Next thing you know, the ALPA guys will be saying "He didn't mean we'd be taking it back LITERALLY!"
We all know this is NOT the case

Righhhhhhht, "individual pilots" standing alone can really accomplish a lot...we should just abolish all unions right now and start getting things done individually! What management group are you with????

 

[JoeMerchant]

Righhhhhhht, "individual pilots" standing alone can really accomplish a lot...we should just abolish all unions right now and start getting things done individually! What management group are you with????

I think your missing the point. Your absolutely right, but that is how we as a union are acting. We are all acting individually.... even WITH ALPA. How about a union that speaks COLLECTIVELY, rather than INDIVIDUALLY. Why are we as union members competing for work within a brand? It is the status quo group that is benefiting management, not the ones who want ALPA to change....

 

[DX Rick]

Righhhhhhht, "individual pilots" standing alone can really accomplish a lot...we should just abolish all unions right now and start getting things done individually! What management group are you with????

Plain simple. Look at the top companies to be with today. There is a reason for that.

 

[DX Rick]

ALPA is nothing but a country club for guys who don't want to work anymore for a living. Volunteers are nothing but suckers who are trying to smooze thier way onto the pay roll.
It's not even a GOB Country Club (Good Ole Boy) , becasue GOB has respect and dignity for themselves, not to become a person like the guys on our MEC's at each airline.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Plain simple. Look at the top companies to be with today. There is a reason for that.

You mean like FedEX? I believe they're ALPA!!!

 

[DX Rick]

Reading through this thread makes me realize how many of you are uninformed, and have opinions based on half truths and exagerations. If this is really the up and coming future generation of pilots then we as a group are in trouble.

I'm not saying I know all, but from your post. You make it sound like you DO know it all. How long have you been with the airline? Must have been one good class you took at SIU, for you to know everything about the union.

I'm a 3rd generation pilot. My family members donated time to thier ALPA local. I have seen first hand how the Union has done nothing for them. Everything from not giving support to help one get thier medical back....had to use an outside source.
To not giving any backing when one jokingly called his friend a "scab" and an A-lister, went crying to Andy Hughes...Andy told him "My hands are tied, I can't help you"

Lets think about this. An ALPA member, gets fired because of an A-lister complained. Nice backing you have there. This is a situation where National stepped in.....but Im sure Dwayne Wayne Worthless had his back to the wall, and couldn't help him.
But yet, he will keep a guy who bent an airplane, his job back.

 

[DX Rick]

You mean like FedEX? I believe they're ALPA!!!

Ok, there is your Gold Star of the decade.

How about SWA, NetJets and the others?

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA is nothing but a country club for guys who don't want to work anymore for a living.

Wow, you really don't have a clue. I'm flying a 92-hour line this month, plus doing work for PCL ALPA, plus doing work for ALPA National. On average, I spend about 2-5 days at home a month - and I hold 14-15 days off. Yeah, really a country-club lifestyle I'm living here.

 

[DX Rick]

Wow, you really don't have a clue. I'm flying a 92-hour line this month, plus doing work for PCL ALPA, plus doing work for ALPA National. On average, I spend about 2-5 days at home a month - and I hold 14-15 days off. Yeah, really a country-club lifestyle I'm living here.

yes, country club. Your membership papers to the golf course haven't been signed....so you still have to work for all the other guys.

 

[DX Rick]

Wow, you really don't have a clue. I'm flying a 92-hour line this month, plus doing work for PCL ALPA, plus doing work for ALPA National. On average, I spend about 2-5 days at home a month - and I hold 14-15 days off. Yeah, really a country-club lifestyle I'm living here.

Now it all makes sense. You need to work the time you do to pay off all the cash you dumped into GIA. I forgot that you dumped thousands of dollars to fly that King Air 1900, to get your "dream job" with PCL.

Glad we have scum like you working for the Union, trying to protect our very jobs...that you PAID for. You paid to take a job away from a guy who earned his dues. You didn't want to put the effort forth, so you just opened up the check book.

 

[CopilotDoug]

I think your missing the point. Your absolutely right, but that is how we as a union are acting. We are all acting individually.... even WITH ALPA. How about a union that speaks COLLECTIVELY, rather than INDIVIDUALLY. Why are we as union members competing for work within a brand? It is the status quo group that is benefiting management, not the ones who want ALPA to change....

Absolutely right, Joe.

 

[CopilotDoug]

You mean like FedEX? I believe they're ALPA!!!

Are you going to attribute the success of their contract to ALPA? Or the fact that they operate under a different business model than the Airlines? Because UPS got a pretty smoking contract too...but they're not ALPA. And NetJets, pretty smoking contract under the Teamsters, but again, different business model.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Wow, you really don't have a clue. I'm flying a 92-hour line this month, plus doing work for PCL ALPA, plus doing work for ALPA National. On average, I spend about 2-5 days at home a month - and I hold 14-15 days off. Yeah, really a country-club lifestyle I'm living here.

92 hours a month? Wow, that does suck! Who would have ever negotiated a contract like that

Just curious as to your thoughts on Colginnical coming into the picture here, PCL. I know they're hot and heavy for some ALPA love, are they going to take any flying away from you guys for a cheaper rate?

 

[PCL_128]

92 hours a month? Wow, that does suck! Who would have ever negotiated a contract like that

Not me. That's actually pretty unusual. The company's refusal to settle our contract has left them with payrates that just aren't marketable in today's job market. They're offering classes to 40 pilots a month, but only 15-20 show up. With them not even able to keep up with attrition, they're scheduling us right up to the contractual max of 95 hours.

Just curious as to your thoughts on Colginnical coming into the picture here, PCL. I know they're hot and heavy for some ALPA love

Yes they are, and I'm happy to help them in any way I can. I hope to see the Colgan pilots as ALPA members within the next few months.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes they are, and I'm happy to help them in any way I can. I hope to see the Colgan pilots as ALPA members within the next few months.

PCL,
I read the Mesa/Freedom single carrier petition. It seems it was dismissed because of the Mesa contract and LOA that incorporated the Freedom list into a single MAG list.

With PCL and ASA at the end game in section 6 negotiations, do you think it may be prudent to try the same thing with Colgan and Skywest? The leverage to actually achieve single groups lies in contract negotiations. Isn't now the time to pull the trigger?

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,
I read the Mesa/Freedom single carrier petition. It seems it was dismissed because of the Mesa contract and LOA that incorporated the Freedom list into a single MAG list.

The single-carrier petition was resolved in ALPA's favor. I don't believe it was dismissed. I suggest calling Legal if you have any questions. I'm certainly no expert on legal rulings. When I need info, I ask Legal.

With PCL and ASA at the end game in section 6 negotiations, do you think it may be prudent to try the same thing with Colgan and Skywest? The leverage to actually achieve single groups lies in contract negotiations. Isn't now the time to pull the trigger?

Again, ALPA Legal has advised that forcing an integration with a non-union group is not a legal option. If you want to merge lists, then I suggest you start working on the Skywest organizing drive to get them into ALPA first.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Yes they are, and I'm happy to help them in any way I can. I hope to see the Colgan pilots as ALPA members within the next few months.

Whats the game plan? You going to have them adopt your contract?

 

[JoeMerchant]

The single-carrier petition was resolved in ALPA's favor. I don't believe it was dismissed. I suggest calling Legal if you have any questions. I'm certainly no expert on legal rulings. When I need info, I ask Legal.

That's not what the petition says. Here it is. Don't blindly follow ALPA legal.... As Reagan said, "trust but verify"...

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2003/30n040.pdf

The front page says "FINDINGS UPON INVESTIGATION - DISMISSAL". If you go on to read it, it says this was because they already achieved single carrier through their contract negotiations. Ask ALPA legal about that....

Again, ALPA Legal has advised that forcing an integration with a non-union group is not a legal option. If you want to merge lists, then I suggest you start working on the Skywest organizing drive to get them into ALPA first.

Read the filing above. That is exactly what Mesa did with Freedom. I'm afraid your getting bad advice from ALPA....