ALPA better be ready--they have a golden opportunity the next 2 yrs!

[Dude]

What, specifically, do I not understand? I am sure that Woerth and Prater did a great job rallying the troops and appearing to do the right thing; however, how much of their work have you personally observed while in DC. I would assert that their work in DC and behind closed doors has more to do with their own career advancement and less to do with the preservation of U.S. airline pilots. The truth is that neither you or I truly know what kind of work they are doing, which is the point. You know exactly what they want you to know and what they tell you. I am just guessing by their failure to improve the conditions of the U.S. airline pilot that they were not effective and lobbied more for themselves than you or I. Any union President that will accept compensation levels like Prater and Woerth while there is still concessionary contracts out there is unethical and validates my point. To argue that they did not is naive and not factual. These guys should carry the cross of the pilots they represent....since we are talking about leadership.

I understand that you do not and will, likely, never agree with me. Good luck if ALPA gets on the AAI property, if so you'll need it. Hopefully, I will look back and say that you were right on the POTUS and ALPA........but I doubt it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No, what's really laughable is that a guy who claims to have as many hours as Prater is still at a regional. Way to go, CFIT! :laugh:

It is exactly that attitude that hurts ALPA with the regionals....

For various reasons, many regionals are 30% "lifers".....these are also the ones who are willing to get involved.....The constant attacks by ALPA cheerleaders... such as yourself....does nothing but turn more people away from ALPA.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

You obviously don't understand how ALPA works, and neither does that Captain that allegedly made those comments.

You obviously don't understand how many ALPA members are fed up with ALPA.....ignorance is bliss....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This is where we disagree. I, along with many others, believe that Washingtonism is the reason that the profession has suffered so much.

CapHill in DC is where everything happens. Every aspect of our career is law and policy, made and enforced on CapHill. The Air Line Pilot Profession ubiquitously is in DC.

ALPA's offices in the 1930s were originally in Chicago. They were moved to DC because that is were most of the time was spent working the issues of the profession.

The ATA, managements association and voice, was created in 1936, five years after ALPA in part to counter ALPA's effectiveness in WashDC.

Saying that WashDC is a bad place for ALPA to do business is like saying the church is a bad place to pray.

At a local level you can rally and fight the "us vs. them battle". In Washington, you(ALPA) are them. You don't have to look any further than your/anyone's own management pilots to see what collusion takes place once one is removed from the line environment.

Problem is... if ALPA becomes a local level only organization, then management only lobbies gov't to get laws changed. Well if "they" are getting 100% of time with congressmen and we are voiceless how does that benefit pilots?

Woerth and Prater aren't exactly champions of the line pilot, they are good campaigners. Making promises and then compromising your word is a lot easier to do sitting in a nice office in Herndon than at your local office with an open door for all of your pilots to see.

I'll agree that the National guys needs to be at more LEC meetings. But that is a two way street. The problem with democracy is participation. When you elect leaders to represent you, as a member or citizen you give up your rights and direct voice. But to make it worse when members or citizens don't participate in the process (voting, meetings, PACs) then were is the connection? It is easy for members to be treated like mushrooms, but also to act like mushrooms.

I don't believe that ALPA, Prater, or even dare I say Woerth are bad folks. They just don't get the line pilot, because they aren't one, anymore.

Agreed. They are politicians. Every ALPA president was a politicians. Every elected officer at ALPA is a politician. Politics is the air and blood of ALPA. Not only ALPA but any organization that wants or needs to influence federal law for their members. It is just the way it is and it doesn't seem like it will change in our life time. But if it were to change...how?

Association means politics. The USAF has an association. The phone book is packed with them. Everyone wants a piece of the federal budget and to change the laws in their favor. There are hundreds of associations that represent much more members than ALPA's 59,000 and have much more money (PAC money especially). So why do you expect ALPA to be so effective?

ANYONE can be corrupted and deceived. Keeping your representation and bargaining group close to home is the only way to ensure that an equitable process is maintained and there is transparency. Having accessibilty is key to having the ability breaking your foot off in the a$$ of your leadership if they stray too far from the reservation.

Agreed. So why not vote, attend LEC meetings and give to the PAC?

5% LEC meeting participation
35% voter participation in elections
14% PAC contribution

Consider if these numbers were overwhelmingly high. THAT would keep your representation close to home. ALPA officers have sked its members what they wanted and gotten zero reply. that gives one pilot, just like all the pilots s/he represents, no better or worse, the blank check to do what he wants. Why would so many pilots give one guy so much power?

Washington leadership will only preserve what you already have with ALPA, which is a disconnected union that doesn't understand it's members. Bring the association home, whip its a$$, then put it to work doing YOUR business.

Now you are talking but that requires each member to take initiative. In 77 years they have yet to do it.

The problem is hypocritical in a way. If ALPA is doing good and the line pilots' life is good, then ALPA is doing as expected and as advertised. No need to monitor or police ALPA. LEC meeting? Naw, let's go golfing...

But when ALPA is doing poorly, such as now, then it is cynicism, despair, disdain, apathy, hatred, rejection, disconnection and ignoring. However, this is when ALPA requires its members policing and monitoring the most, just as you've been advocating in this thread.

Either way, the path of least resistance, or non participation is taken. Simply put pilots (or members of democracy) take the low and easy road and do not get involved. It is degrading exponentially: the members refuse to get involved until the leadership gets better, but the leadership won't get better until the membership gets involved.

Query this: how does good leadership rise from apathy, disdain, cynicism and bitterness?

ALPA should not be negotiating on behalf of Delta one day, then ASA the next. It's like Johnny Cochran arguing for O.J. and the state of California at the same time. It has gotten too big and represent too many conflicting units.

I disagree. Your analogy is akin to ALPA representing DAL pilots one day then ASA management the next.

While ALPA representing ASA and DAL pilots seems conflicting, having different unions would be even more adversarial.

Humans constantly live in paradox. Those that refuse to embrace conflict and quagmires have the most difficult times. ALPA does need to learn to coordinate MECs better, and creating new unions is regressive.

As a former member, yes I do. Because you disagree with me or the NWA Captain doesn't mean that we don't know how the game is played. We have alternative views. Take those blinders off every once in a while and take a look around. The view sucks from everyone else's position. ALPA is losing, fast.

After the BK era and the Bush Admin, where do you really expect ALPA to be? Management couldn't believe their luck when 9/11 happened. The turn in the industry was already on its way. It began in 2Q2001 and management didn't know how it was going to deal with labor.

The perfect one-two punch for labor was a national security crises and pro management anti labor administration that would give a legal hall pass for managements to slash, pillage, rape and burn.

Case and point.. United workers in Canada kept their pensions because the Canadian gov't would not allow UAL corp to rape it. We know what the Bush Admin allowed UAL corp to do with American worker pensions. And you want ALPA to do what? That is like a cop showing up to your apt. and letting your landlord rape your daughter.

They need more grass roots leadership from the bottom

Correct. This comes from each and every member. There is a leader/followership paradigm that actually switches the roles, where followers becomes leaders. This is what ALPA members need to do. Hoping for the right changes without participation is unworkable. Hope is not a game plan.

and distance themselves from the Washington crowd, because it serves no one.

So very wrong. What ALPA leaders need to do is speak to Congressmen and have thousands of pilots behind them saying "Yeah what he said". That gets the attention. Sort of like a Verizon Deadzone commercial with the "network". "We're good!"

Again. May 2007 the Washington DC Mall. A Labor rally. 100 pilots there and 90% of them were the same ol' WashDC players: committee chairmen, EC and EB Officers. We are never going to move forward if we don't show them our army.

The only opportunity ALPA has is to save itself and it doesn't look like they are doing a great job at that.

The status quo for 77 years simply hasn't worked. Waiting for ALPA officers to effect change without the support of the membership is futile.

Only until ALPA members take ownership in their profession will changes occur.

Here is what I suggest each member do:

Vote. With online voting it really takes 90 seconds. Is the logical excuse not to?

Give to ALPA-PAC. To write a small check each month or one check each year. With PC banking this is another 90s effort.

Attend a LEC meeting. This takes anywhere from three hours to a day each quarter or four days a year.

Attend a picket or rally: two days a year.
​

So what we are talking about is less than a week of your time per year. We give allot in dues money and ask fellow pilots, any given "dude" in the crewroom, who wants to be elected, to manage our careers. Why would you turn your back on all that money and career earnings potential when the alternative is about six days of your time per year.

Success is ALL of the pilots doing something, some of the time. Right now a few of the pilots are doing everything, all of the time. The power and strength is in unity and numbers.

 

[Nightrain_080]

No, what's really laughable is that a guy who claims to have as many hours as Prater is still at a regional. Way to go, CFIT! :laugh:

I am sure CFIT and others really want to give up all their Holiday pay, Sweet Schedules and Six figure salaries to fly at a Mainline Airline. Maybe Delta they could be number 12,407. Work Christmas, New Years, Weekends and live in a crash pad. That is Laughable.

PCL_128 = Retard

 

[Nindiri]

Why should we expect this Democratically controlled White House, Senate, and House to be any more labor friendly than the last time they controlled all three?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Your thoughts and opinions please......

Put this in the form of a resolution. Take it to your next LEC meeting. Thats the meting that the regular 13-15 pilots attend regularly.

Enny-hoo...then introduce the resolution...there will be discussion...then there will be a vote. If the majority of the 13-15 pilots in attendance vote in favor of the resolution....then it will go to the MEC level...

If it passes there...then it will go to the ALPA BOD for a final vote...

All the best...let us know how it all turns out.

 

[BOOZENEWS]

Thread resurrected.

Now that the dems have control of both houses and the WH, ALPA better get busy with this. The planets will be lined up perfectly the next 2 yrs and this is a once in a generation opportunity to drastically alter or eliminate the RLA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Thread resurrected.

Now that the dems have control of both houses and the WH, ALPA better get busy with this. The planets will be lined up perfectly the next 2 yrs and this is a once in a generation opportunity to drastically alter or eliminate the RLA.

Then I suggest we increase our participation and motivate our fellow pilots to do the same....