ALPA better be ready--they have a golden opportunity the next 2 yrs!

[linepilot]

You also forgot to mention UAL's three years in bankruptcy and look at their situation today, no better than when they entered bankruptcy years ago... As long as this country remains a capitalistic one-- the weak will fail and the strong will survive... My opinion is the same for Detroit-- we shouldn't be bailing out weak companies who have inferior products because that being said, GM and Toyota sold the same number of vehicles last year 9.2 million- but GM lost Billions and Toyota made several billion. The difference between the two companies? One is union the other is not. One builds products people are willing to purchase, the other one does not. If Detroit is going to survive, there will have to be mergers, maybe even a bankruptcy reorganization to tool their plants and work force for a more competitive environment.

ALPA had it's chance to shine years ago. It failed.

The pendulum WILL swing.

My personal opinion is that if you take a 20 year phugoid, we're at the bottom swinging up.

Enjoy!

 

[CFIT]

"ALPA had it's chance to shine years ago. It failed."


Not so much that it failed, but did nothing. The system ran but always had small set backs with little or no accomplishments, it ran on the status quo. All the while management was doing their homework, changing certificates, setting up alter egos, poison to bancruptcy. ALPA, no action, president after president comfty making their sickening pay package and lifetime pension.

This whole time the major aspect that management had to combat any percieved strength that labor could have had was always fulcrumed over the RLA.

Any action on that front? Sadly no.

When the president of the organization loses the oppulance of the crown, action will take place. But to the many that see that nothing takes place on the top, no sacrifices, while nearly all take deep cuts, disatisfaction not only brews but becomes the mainstay.

Prater needs to step down and be filled by a real line pilot, willing to work for a real wage comeserate with the membership. With a real agenda that includes focusing on the RLA, not somebody that throws their hands in the air and wishes they was something they could do about it.

Make it real union, that really has strength from within, and every pilot will fall over them selves to join.

Make it real president, that is only bettering the association and not themselves with disgusting pay packages, and many pilots will feel their time volunteering is appreciated.

Make it a real union, that can recognize it needs to re-invent itself, with a top down re-structuring.

I would join that union.

 

[PCL_128]

Prater needs to step down and be filled by a real line pilot

This just pisses me off. Captain Prater was flying airplanes probably before you were even born. He still did everything he could to maintain currency after he was elected ALPA president. What makes you think you or anyone else is more of a "real line pilot" than he is? Ridiculous.

 

[CFIT]

This just pisses me off. Captain Prater was flying airplanes probably before you were even born. He still did everything he could to maintain currency after he was elected ALPA president. What makes you think you or anyone else is more of a "real line pilot" than he is? Ridiculous.

I doubt he has more time than me and he is only a few years older, I've been flying longer than he has.

But as for a "real line pilot" goes, how many are making over HALF A MILLION A YEAR?

anyone?

 

[PCL_128]

But as for a "real line pilot" goes, how many are making over HALF A MILLION A YEAR?

Captain Prater doesn't make anywhere near half a million dollars. Stop spreading lies.

 

[CFIT]

Captain Prater doesn't make anywhere near half a million dollars. Stop spreading lies.

His "base" pay is at a rate of $296 an hour, 176 hours per month, plus housing, and other miscellanous expenses. And a new Lincoln Town car every other year.




Makes me want to sign up and volunteer........

 

[AC560]

To those who think Obama is anti-labor, you are very mistaken.

Likewise those who think Obama or any politician is going to support a small group (union pilots) over a large group (the traveling public) are very mistaken.

If RLA went away tomorrow Obama would more then likely quickly apply Taft-Hartley they same as Bush did against the ILWU if there was an airline strike. Thousands of stranded voters needed to be rescued from greedy pilots. Whether that is reality or not the perception would be pilots get paid a lot (which at the majors is certainly true). There is about as much public support for pilots as there is for the UAW guys.

Finally if a strike was allowed to continue freely, the airline in question would more then likely go out of business. The seniority model means that if that occurred you would have pilots used to making $100K plus go back to making $20K a year with possible pension loss. The company knows this and the pilots know this. Thus the top two thirds of the union readily agree to screw the bottom third plus future new hires in order to minimize their own loss and protect their jobs.

The airline unions problem is that you have a highly skilled workforce whose skills and experience are not the basis for compensation. Until you change that model your basically doomed to a downward slide.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Likewise those who think Obama or any politician is going to support a small group (union pilots) over a large group (the traveling public) are very mistaken.

If RLA went away tomorrow Obama would more then likely quickly apply Taft-Hartley they same as Bush did against the ILWU if there was an airline strike. Thousands of stranded voters needed to be rescued from greedy pilots. Whether that is reality or not the perception would be pilots get paid a lot (which at the majors is certainly true). There is about as much public support for pilots as there is for the UAW guys.

Finally if a strike was allowed to continue freely, the airline in question would more then likely go out of business. The seniority model means that if that occurred you would have pilots used to making $100K plus go back to making $20K a year with possible pension loss. The company knows this and the pilots know this. Thus the top two thirds of the union readily agree to screw the bottom third plus future new hires in order to minimize their own loss and protect their jobs.

The airline unions problem is that you have a highly skilled workforce whose skills and experience are not the basis for compensation. Until you change that model your basically doomed to a downward slide.

That sums it up very nicely....

 

[CFIT]

All of this is news to ALPA, as we speak a "new" steering commitee is assembling to have a "resolution" to get to the bottom of this unforseen dilemma.

Expect discussion and possible LEC voting by 2015.

 

[Sedona16]

Prater needs to step down and be filled by a real line pilot, willing to work for a real wage comeserate with the membership. With a real agenda that includes focusing on the RLA, not somebody that throws their hands in the air and wishes they was something they could do about it.

This is funny coming from a guy who works within an organization that is lucky to achieve 2% pay raises during arguably the most prosperous time in regional airline history. Where the top three hogs take home considerably more than the average (non check airman) line pilot. Lets not even talk about all the other give aways and block hour overide. Laughable.

 

[CFIT]

This is funny coming from a guy who works within an organization that is lucky to achieve 2% pay raises during arguably the most prosperous time in regional airline history. Where the top three hogs take home considerably more than the average (non check airman) line pilot. Lets not even talk about all the other give aways and block hour overide. Laughable.

Ya, I work my but off to make half of what Prater makes having subsitized lunches most of the week. Plus SkWest's rates and work rules are among the highest without paying for Hendon's lunch parties.

But why should a lonely regional FO pay a year in dues only to cover Praters weekly Martini bill?

The high costs of the EB are just too much, can you really justify the number?

BTW, SkyWest is pushing numbers every way they can to justify not furloughing pilots, is every other ALPA doing that? Comair?

 

[PCL_128]

This is funny coming from a guy who works within an organization that is lucky to achieve 2% pay raises during arguably the most prosperous time in regional airline history. Where the top three hogs take home considerably more than the average (non check airman) line pilot. Lets not even talk about all the other give aways and block hour overide. Laughable.

No, what's really laughable is that a guy who claims to have as many hours as Prater is still at a regional. Way to go, CFIT! :laugh:

 

[CFIT]

No, what's really laughable is that a guy who claims to have as many hours as Prater is still at a regional. Way to go, CFIT! :laugh:

Want to compare paychecks?

Of course it doesn't compare to what Prater is getting, as he looks down amongst his minnions getting pay cuts and furloughs, really?

 

[Dude]

Interesting experience a couple of days ago in Seattle. I am on the bus to the hotel and a NWA 747 Captain asks me how things are going and I tell him "fine, how about you folks?". He promptly and assertively tells me that he burned his ALPA card, and has no longer a use for his former association. He is no longer a member. His reasoning was that HE was as effective as ALPA at preserving his job and pay. "The Herndon version of ALPA is what is wrong with ALPA and it is filled with "pilots" that do not want to be pilots." His account of his experience with Woerth was comical at best. Prater seems to render the same frustration from the members as DW did. The NWA Captain continued to tell stories of incompetence and unethical behavior. His story is just one, but I find it interesting enough to post here. I don't agree wholeheartedly with him, but certainly understand that his view of ALPA is common and unfortunate. I wouldn't want to be without representation these days; but as far as a bargaining unit, ALPA is as impotent as they come. The folks in Herndon should be no more than support for the MEC/LEC offices. Instead they are the "man behind the curtain" and that serves only those in Herndon.

 

[Dude]

PCL,

Skywest is as much a regional as AirTran. I'd tread lightly, my friend. Weren't you a "regional pilot" at one time? To assume that a regional pilot automatically has fewer hours than a "major" pilot shows your ignorance. Some of the most qualified and highest time guys I have flown with were on the Jetstream, Brazilia, and ATR.

 

[PCL_128]

You obviously don't understand how ALPA works, and neither does that Captain that allegedly made those comments.

 

[Dude]

As a former member, yes I do. Because you disagree with me or the NWA Captain doesn't mean that we don't know how the game is played. We have alternative views. Take those blinders off every once in a while and take a look around. The view sucks from everyone else's position. ALPA is losing, fast. They need more grass roots leadership from the bottom and distance themselves from the Washington crowd, because it serves no one. The only opportunity ALPA has is to save itself and it doesn't look like they are doing a great job at that.

 

[PCL_128]

What you propose is the exact opposite of what ALPA should be doing. Backing away from DC would be the death knell for this profession. The real work that must be done to protect this profession can only be done in DC. That must be the focus. Thankfully, Prater understands that.

 

[Dude]

This is where we disagree. I, along with many others, believe that Washingtonism is the reason that the profession has suffered so much. At a local level you can rally and fight the "us vs. them battle". In Washington, you(ALPA) are them. You don't have to look any further than your/anyone's own management pilots to see what collusion takes place once one is removed from the line environment. Woerth and Prater aren't exactly champions of the line pilot, they are good campaigners. Making promises and then compromising your word is a lot easier to do sitting in a nice office in Herndon than at your local office with an open door for all of your pilots to see.

I don't believe that ALPA, Prater, or even dare I say Woerth are bad folks. They just don't get the line pilot, because they aren't one, anymore. ANYONE can be corrupted and deceived. Keeping your representation and bargaining group close to home is the only way to ensure that an equitable process is maintained and there is transparency. Having accessibilty is key to having the ability breaking your foot off in the a$$ of your leadership if they stray too far from the reservation. Washington leadership will only preserve what you already have with ALPA, which is a disconnected union that doesn't understand it's members. Bring the association home, whip its a$$, then put it to work doing YOUR business. ALPA should not be negotiating on behalf of Delta one day, then ASA the next. It's like Johnny Cochran arguing for O.J. and the state of California at the same time. It has gotten too big and represent too many conflicting units.

 

[PCL_128]

Again, I don't think you understand how ALPA actually works. I've seen Prater and Woerth in action, first hand. They are most certainly fighting tooth and nail to protect the average pilot. It's a shame that the average pilot doesn't get to see it, but it's happening every day.