ALPA Age 60 Survey

[Freight Dog]

Hugh, I love ya man! But your a$$ better retire off to PI with a lifetime stash of viagra when you turn 60.

If ALPA's answer to the current state of the industry is to up the retirement age, we have WAY worse problems than I ever thought.

I voted NO!!! I want to retire at 60. I don't want to be forced to work til I slump over during a V1 cut in the sim or a real life engine failure.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

If ALPA's answer to the current state of the industry is to up the retirement age, we have WAY worse problems than I ever thought. .

FD, my brothah, the current state of the industry is irrelevant to this issue. In 20 years, the state of the industry in 2005 won't make a hill of beans. Not even germane.

I voted NO!!! I want to retire at 60. I don't want to be forced to work til I slump over during a V1 cut in the sim or a real life engine failure.

Well, that's what YOU want, bro. If you want to retire at 60, then do so! If you want to retire at 53, by all means do so. If I want to retire at 63, who's to tell me that I can't? I'm looking more at 58 myself, but if a guy (or old bag) wants to go longer, then nobody should stop them based on a meaningless figure. Off to waikiki to look for that moron with buck-ass teeth at Threes.

 

[b757driver]

I voted NO!!! I want to retire at 60. I don't want to be forced to work til I slump over during a V1 cut in the sim or a real life engine failure.

Good for you! But, no one is being FORCED to work. It is about FREEDOM of choice. You are LUCKY if you are able to choose when you WANT to retire - many more people do not have that choice. I also suggest that the "state of the industry" has little to do with retirement age - it goes far deeper, my friend. So, why don't you retire @ 60 like you want and let others decide what they want, rather than dictate what they should do. FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!

 

[Freight Dog]

FD, my brothah, the current state of the industry is irrelevant to this issue. In 20 years, the state of the industry in 2005 won't make a hill of beans. Not even germane.

Bruddah Hugh... our profession is going to sh*t. ALPA lost its backbone and we're bickering over age 60 while our pay, work rules, retirement, etc. all going/gone to sh*t. All the while the management is laughing their asses off. With thousands of ALPA pilots still furloughed, and who stand to remain furloughed even longer should this pass, this is a highly-divisive move at this time.

Off to waikiki to look for that moron with buck-ass teeth at Threes.

Good luck finding him... I think someone drowned his ass already..

 

[Freight Dog]

Good for you! But, no one is being FORCED to work. It is about FREEDOM of choice. You are LUCKY if you are able to choose when you WANT to retire - many more people do not have that choice. I also suggest that the "state of the industry" has little to do with retirement age - it goes far deeper, my friend. So, why don't you retire @ 60 like you want and let others decide what they want, rather than dictate what they should do. FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!

Ahhh... freedom of choice. Well, it's not exactly freedom of choice if retiring before MANDATORY retirement carries a financial penalty, now is it?

Why is it that ATC mandatory retirement age is 55? It might be for safety reasons..

 

[PCL_128]

Good for you! But, no one is being FORCED to work. It is about FREEDOM of choice. You are LUCKY if you are able to choose when you WANT to retire - many more people do not have that choice. I also suggest that the "state of the industry" has little to do with retirement age - it goes far deeper, my friend. So, why don't you retire @ 60 like you want and let others decide what they want, rather than dictate what they should do. FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!

I don't want to be FORCED to work with some 65 y/o geezer who lost his situational awareness years ago. I don't want to be FORCED to DH in the back of an airplane that some 65 y/o is flying who can't remember what day it is, let alone what his memory items are for an engine fire.

You guys can pretend that PCs and medicals actually tell us something, but you all know that they don't. An engine failure in a sim where you know it's coming isn't the same as losing an engine on takeoff in real life when you aren't expecting it. Sim rides will never be able to tell us the cognitive ability of a pilot, and neither will more frequent medical checks. Age 60 may be arbitrary, but it draws a line in the sand that provides at least a minimal level of safety. If you want to fly till you die, then go fly around some rich idiot that doesn't mind a senile old man flying his plane.

 

[semperfido]

I don't want to be FORCED to work with some 65 y/o geezer who lost his situational awareness years ago. I don't want to be FORCED to DH in the back of an airplane that some 65 y/o is flying who can't remember what day it is, let alone what his memory items are for an engine fire.

You guys can pretend that PCs and medicals actually tell us something, but you all know that they don't. An engine failure in a sim where you know it's coming isn't the same as losing an engine on takeoff in real life when you aren't expecting it. Sim rides will never be able to tell us the cognitive ability of a pilot, and neither will more frequent medical checks. Age 60 may be arbitrary, but it draws a line in the sand that provides at least a minimal level of safety. If you want to fly till you die, then go fly around some rich idiot that doesn't mind a senile old man flying his plane.

your comments are a direct reflection of your immaturity and lack of experience.

 

[pilotyip]

PLC sounds like one of those guys who will never grow old.

 

[PCL_128]

PLC sounds like one of those guys who will never grow old.

No, I'm one of those guys that wants to spend my old age lounging on the beach in Florida instead of getting up at 4:00am to fly from FWA to DTW. I guess I'm funny like that.

 

[LarryinTN]

LJ-ABX, I agree that is why some sort of cognitive testing, say at starting about age 45 should be instituted to continue flying beyond that age.

Yes, it could probably be something like the EKGs now where the frequency of the tests is based on age.

 

[pilotyip]

Time will tell

PLC you know a funny thing happened on the way to my retirement, 4 companies went out of business, I had plenty of time between jobs, went backwards in pay, and had years where I could not contribute to my retirement. Looking back, I missed opportunities, made wrong choices, like should I have crossed the picket line at CAL in 1984, I do not know. They were hiring P-3 guys from my reserve unit. My ALPA buddies in my squadron said if I did that I would be labeled as a SCAB and end up my career flying for some non-sked at YIP. The guys who crossed the line have been Captains until retirement, good company, good money, and I am working for some non-sked at YIP. Did I plan it that way, not in a moment. We are all "Hostages to Fortune" (thank you E. Gann) and do not have the control over our lives we think we do.

 

[LarryinTN]

So then your age 60 rule does absolutely nothing to help this problem.

It got him out of the cockpit at age 60, a fact about which he complained loudly and often. If not for the age 60 rule he'd still be flying around airliners at about age 63, by now.

The age 60 rule certainly isn't perfect but most folks can make it to age 60 safely so it achieves the goal of removing pilots BEFORE they become unsafe for most pilots. If we make a change then we need a change that IMPROVES on the current rule, not one which lets even more slip through the cracks.

 

[LarryinTN]

It's the meat of why a rule based on an arbitrary number is outrageous and unfair!

The proposals in Congress, which make each individual's SS retirement age their mandatory retirement age, is equally as arbitrary, outrageous and unfair.

Why, for example, under the current proposal would a pilot born on December 31st, 1954 be required to retire at age 66 while a pilot born only one day later be allowed to work an additional two months to age 66 and 2 months?

Raising the retirement age does nothing to resolve your chief critisism of the current rule--it's arbitrary nature.

 

[LarryinTN]

That's just as silly (and discriminatory). You make all commercial pilots, regardless of age pass the same test.

That's not what he said. The test could be applied based on age just like the EKGs are now. Perhaps your first test would be at your first medical application to establish a baseline then every five years after age 40 and yearly after age 60? Once they have a test they would be able to collect data to determine a reasonable and effective testing schedule. The problem is that there is no test!

 

[LarryinTN]

your comments are a direct reflection of your immaturity and lack of experience.

Perhaps, but in my experience his comments are also accurate.