ALPA 401k vote.

[JoeMerchant]

at least open two windows and log on at the same time so it appears you are two different people....

....that's right Rez...everyone who thinks you are an idiot are really just me using different screen names.......

You need help.....

 

[CopilotDoug]

I just realized you are right..... will you forgive me?



Please?

Only if you REALLY mean it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Only if you REALLY mean it.

I do. Make it your signature line....

 

[CopilotDoug]

Sorry Rez. Somebody realizing I'm right? Nothing new with that. Join the club, Cupcake

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sorry it took so long..... forgive and forget?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Back on topic...

First off, unions have been given a stacked deck in the USA. Workers rights are secondary. We value corporate profits over fairness and reasonability for workers.

I don't disagree, but take a look at it this way: You're logic assumes that it comes down to the individual, no? What about the industry as an individual? Will the Airline Pilots obediantly sit down with the other industries when commanded to do so by Executive Powers? Are we waiting for another industry to pick up the flag and lead the charge?

In addition, why do expect ALPA to be something it is not?

I don't EXPECT anything from ALPA. A more poignant question would be: Why do I envision ALPA to be something it isn't. Because Rez, that's how ALPA can become a stronger, progessive Union that can help the pilots. I'm not asking 'why?'...I'm asking 'why not?'

And that is ALPA's fault...?Did ALPA craft the RLA?

I'm asking how much can really change if the RLA (which ALPA will abide by) remains in place?

Face it, in America we are all about individualism, greed and fear.

I agree. But let's be honest, these are human traits, not isolated to American's. It's what kept our ancestors alive. Don't forget, these characteristics also apply to leaders AND CEO's. How does that influence ALPA leadership and consequently, the membership?

PATCO tried it.... it backfired and ruined it for all of us...

Fear is natural. But don't get too focused on yourself, what does management fear?

 

[CopilotDoug]

No thoughts or comments, Rez?

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Rez,

I believe in the ALPA concept but I gotta be honest with you I don't like Prater and his cronies. First they went against the will of the membership with age 65 and then they tried to force the 401k issue. Prater needs to be recalled. Until we have a leader who earns the respect and trust of the membership this union is dead. I just finished reading Flying the Line and it saddens me to see what ALPA has become. We gotta turn this ship around and it all starts with the Captain (Prater).

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,

I believe in the ALPA concept but I gotta be honest with you I don't like Prater and his cronies.

You probably wouldn't like the way he got elected either... the politics of it all....

First they went against the will of the membership with age 65

Only a minority of pilots particapted. Of the minority, a slim majority wanted age 60.

Age 65 was going to happen. ALPA needed to decide if it was going to be an obstructionist or influential.

and then they tried to force the 401k issue.

Force? How? It was quite democratic. A vote was taken and it failed to pass. Where is the force?

Prater needs to be recalled.

Pilots hated DW and pinned their hopes on anybody but DW.

Until we have a leader who earns the respect and trust of the membership this union is dead.

Or members who respect and trust each other.

I just finished reading Flying the Line and it saddens me to see what ALPA has become.

Pilots have always been apathetic in ALPA. Nothing has changed.

Although you'll recall when pilots gave Dave Behnke their resignations letters. Behnke used those letters to negotiate.

Are you and I and the rest of us ready to give our union leaders our resignation letters to improve our lot?

This is what I mean.. we pilots have to give our leaders the ammo and firepower to be effective.

We currently don't. And that is why ALPA is ineffective.

We gotta turn this ship around and it all starts with the Captain (Prater).

Yes, we do but it starts with us.

What happens when the Prater replacement isn't good.

What happens when the guys that run for ALPA President are weak leaders? when the choices are bad and worse?

Yet, if ALL ALPA pilots participated at some level some of the time our effectiveness would dramatically increase.

We cannot pin our hopes onto one person, when all of us are not willing to do even a small amount...

 

[CopilotDoug]

You probably wouldn't like the way he got elected either... the politics of it all...

Hence the option to recall. You can't live up to your word? Then you'll be replaced!

Only a minority of pilots particapted. Of the minority, a slim majority wanted age 60.

Age 65 was going to happen. ALPA needed to decide if it was going to be an obstructionist or influential....

We get the picture...ALPA put democracy on the back burner.

Although you'll recall when pilots gave Dave Behnke their resignations letters. Behnke used those letters to negotiate.

Are you and I and the rest of us ready to give our union leaders our resignation letters to improve our lot?

This is what I mean.. we pilots have to give our leaders the ammo and firepower to be effective.

We currently don't. And that is why ALPA is ineffective.





Yes, we do but it starts with us.

What happens when the Prater replacement isn't good.

What happens when the guys that run for ALPA President are weak leaders? when the choices are bad and worse?

Yet, if ALL ALPA pilots participated at some level some of the time our effectiveness would dramatically increase.

We cannot pin our hopes onto one person, when all of us are not willing to do even a small amount...

And I actually agree with one of your points. Pilots have proven time and again they will not put their career at stake when it comes to concessions.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hence the option to recall. You can't live up to your word? Then you'll be replaced!

It isn't going to happen...

We get the picture...ALPA put democracy on the back burner.

No, they didn't put populist outcry on the front burner...

And I actually agree with one of your points. Pilots have proven time and again they will not put their career at stake when it comes to concessions.

Then why do you expect more from unions..

 

[CopilotDoug]

It isn't going to happen...

Do you think it won't happen as a result of apathy on behalf of the membership? Or do you think the National Executives will protect their own?

No, they didn't put populist outcry on the front burner...

Phrase it however you wish...the majority of those who voted were against Age 65. There is no excuse for a Union to go against the will of its membership.

Then why do you expect more from unions..

Please refer to post #96...2nd paragraph.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No, they didn't put populist outcry on the front burner...

Another "Rezism"....

Democracy is majority rules.... if Rez agrees......If he doesn't agree then it is "populist outcry"....

I hear a lot of "populist outcry" coming from Rez....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Do you think it won't happen as a result of apathy on behalf of the membership? Or do you think the National Executives will protect their own?

Membership apathy. Or lack of concerns really. I mean who is really calling for recall. Moniker clowns on FI?

There is no real recall movement. It doesn't exist.

EC/EB protecting theor own? If that was true then the 401k dues would have been "passed"

Phrase it however you wish...the majority of those who voted were against Age 65. There is no excuse for a Union to go against the will of its membership.

Again, there was no majority... it was the majority of the minority. The true real majority was apathetic and gave the leadership a "blank check".

Please refer to post #96...2nd paragraph.

No we are wating for individual pilots to reach ciritical mass at the same time to effect change.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Membership apathy. Or lack of concerns really. I mean who is really calling for recall. Moniker clowns on FI?

There is no real recall movement. It doesn't exist.

EC/EB protecting theor own? If that was true then the 401k dues would have been "passed"





Again, there was no majority... it was the majority of the minority. The true real majority was apathetic and gave the leadership a "blank check".

Potato - Potahtoe. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

No we are wating for individual pilots to reach ciritical mass at the same time to effect change.

I think the industry will be waiting a long time. Rather than stay and fix things...alot of pilots get fed up and leave the industry.

Meanwhile...a good portion are "just lucky to have a job" in this kind of economy.

And a third group "isn't in it for the pay"

These are a hinderance to any real improvements being made for airline pilots.

My prediction is that pilots aren't going to boil over any time soon.

We our our own worst enemy.