Aloha/Hawaiian info

[got_jumpseat?]

Jim, if everything you wrote below is true, then what are all these rumors about furloughs at Hawaiian again? I have many friends at HA & AQ and all I hear is the expansion is over at HA or at least on hold indefinately. Meanwhile AQ is running classes non-stop for the forseeable future. What's really going on over there? HA is my first choice but I am about to go to AQ instead, I am tired of waiting. I am not the only one.

To elaborate on HAL's previous post. I've gotten the following from the Chief Pilot and various union leaders...

As HAL said, the only announced expansion is the PHX service to starting in Oct. Further, we have trimmed some fat off our schedule starting in Sept by changing some flights from daily to 3x, 4x or 5x weekly.

That being said, there are currently signs all over the tourist areas in HNL and at the shopping malls that show a map with a bunch of red dots labeled with our current destinations. The caption says "Seeing spots? You'll soon see more." There are rumors that we will announce at least 5 new destinations in the mid and eastern US for spring 2003. My union rep actually named the cities for me and said we would have to hire in early 2003 if we wanted to start service in late spring/early summer.

Management is currently looking at acquiring 757s to augment the ordered 767s. The union has been asked to negotiate 757 rates, but we have other issues to resolve first. Hawaiian looked at National closely, but did not make an offer as their 757s are not ETOPS and it would cost too much to modify them (this National bit was from our majority stockholder, John Adams.)

The CP told me he doesn't expect any hiring until after the first of the year. He also said there are 19 pilots in our hiring pool and the hiring committee is working on making a "to be interviewed list".

Aloha is trying to expand it's international market. To stay competative and keep market share, Hawaiian has to match this expansion.

Bottomline from my short tenure here after furlough...the future is looking good. I expect more growth/hiring next year.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

What can I say, things change quickly......and being 5 from the bottom of the senority list, I am definitely keeping track of things.

A month ago, the former Assistant Chief Pilot who still heads up interviewing showed me a list of 25 names to be interviewed (my friend was on it). He expected to be interviewing by to first of the year.

A week ago, John Adams (the CEO / majority stockholder) said "furloughs are going to happen". It was at a company wide meeting and it's not for sure that he meant pilots or company-wide. It kind of depends on what happens with our routes/expansion.

It seems to me the Chief Pilot's office and Adams office are frustratingly not on the same page when it comes to pilot staffing at HAL. Q; Do any of those 25 people on the list have a way of finding out if they are on that list??

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Not really, I was quite surprised when he showed it to me. I've seen him since and he said the whole process was put on hold shortly after he showed it to me.

Why doesnt that surprise me? Well I am very interested to see how the PHX run works out for HA. This has the potential to turn everything around for Pualani. Its the first time low-cost discount airfares have been available through a big mainland hub in a long time. HP lost so much money with their 747 HNL service it was called the non-rev express. I really think this partnership could work out for both HA & HP. I sure hope it does.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Hawaiian Furlough

Twice today I heard Hawaiian is letting go of 80-85 pilots. Anybody else know what the deal is?

 

[jenga]

I dont have any idea what the deal is, but yesterday I heard the same - that Hawaiian is gonna furlough 85 pilots.

If it happens, I hope it doesnt roll back to Island Air.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

rollback

What I was told by Phyllis last year was the only reason some furloughed AQ pilots were allowed back to Island Air was they were on previously approved LOA's from Island while going through AQ's training.

The most junior pilot at Hawaiian has been there over 14 months. I dont think its possible unless they went to the bottom of Island Air's list as a new hire again. They are an ALPA carrier with a contract they're supposed to follow.

 

[HAL]

I'm not sure where you've heard this rumor, because we haven't heard anything on the property about it. And as Jim and I have said before in this thread, management just finished a new vacancy bid effective for February, and I don't think they'd have done if if furloughs were in the mix. It just seems like a wild rumor started by someone not happy with HA. (AQ pilot maybe?)

That's not to say they may not come in the future because of the reduction in interisland flying that comes with the agreement with Aloha. But to have a hard-and-fast number like 85 right now seems pretty unlikely.

HAL

 

[jenga]

jumpseat,

Thanks for the rollback info. I feel a little better. I'll feel much better when IA has a class and I'm in it.
Are you at IA now?

HAL,

Last week I "heard" from a couple sources (friend of a friend type deals) that there could be furloughs in the near future. Then yesterday I "heard" the 85 number. I was definitely surprised (and bummed for youz guyz) to hear that high of a specific number. I hope for everyone there that this is not true at all and that it never happens. Hopefully it's just a wild rumor.

Do you think that antitrust interisland deal will kick up ops at IA?
Just curious what your opinion is.

 

[Sleepyhead]

My friend's neighbor flys for HA, that is were I heard the furlough rumor. I assume he heard it going around at flight ops. Hope it doesn't haqppen.

I have another friend at Island. He said the only pilots Island took back from HA were becuase they were check pilots at Island.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

jumpseat,

Thanks for the rollback info. I feel a little better. I'll feel much better when IA has a class and I'm in it.
Are you at IA now?

Do you think that antitrust interisland deal will kick up ops at IA?
Just curious what your opinion is.

No I almost went to Island after suffering a severe case of homesickness but opted to stick it out at a mainland 121 commuter airline. I didn't want to be at the bottom of some "Island Air Pilot" hiring list (if one exists). I know I will get in at AQ or HA quicker by staying away from Island. I get all kinds of weather and its more like a real airline and I fly a jet. I have reasonable seniority and even though I work on the mainland I have more time off IN HAWAII than ever before. I make the commute back and forth over the water 2 or 3x's a month.

Aloha has strict scope regarding Island Air. I dont expect to see a big boom there beyond their 4 DHC-8's without large gains in other areas for mainline AQ pilots. Do you know what scope is? Hopefully for all of us it is a word that will never become too common in Hawaii.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

I'm not sure where you've heard this rumor, because we haven't heard anything on the property about it. And as Jim and I have said before in this thread, management just finished a new vacancy bid effective for February, and I don't think they'd have done if if furloughs were in the mix. It just seems like a wild rumor started by someone not happy with HA. (AQ pilot maybe?)

That's not to say they may not come in the future because of the reduction in interisland flying that comes with the agreement with Aloha. But to have a hard-and-fast number like 85 right now seems pretty unlikely.

HAL

I just did a three day trip and jumped on HA both ways out of LAX and both crews had heard the "furlough rumor" but neither had heard the 85 number.

I am always amazed how rumors start. I heard the 85 number from three different, un-related people on the same day. Glad to realize its just wildfire and nothing more.

 

[Freight Dog]

Got Jumpseat, I'd like to add a couple of things regarding Island Air.

Aloha scope has Island Air restricted from flying nonstop between the 5 major airports (HNL, OGG, KOA, ITO, LIH). However, we are free to make a stop at any secondary airport and continue. This was the case after 9/11 when we were flying OGG-ITO and OGG-KOA via either LNY or MKK. When Aloha took back direct flights, we pulled back. IMHO, Island Air's problem is marketing, but that's another issue altogether.

Before you knock Island Air, consider a few things:

- Most people who come here with any kind of flight time will upgrade within 1 year. I came here with 1500TT, spent a year in the right seat, and upgraded to captain. Mind you, this was while most other airlines including most regionals were furloughing. I don't know what the upgrade times are back in the mainland, but I can almost guarantee you that they aren't anywhere near as fast as ours.

- Getting to Aloha from mainland commuter than via Island Air? Well, I dunno... we had brand new captains with as little as 2 weeks online as captains go to Aloha. The exodus continues... Bear in mind that any kind of movement within our ranks is significant because it makes your relative seniority higher enabling you to upgrade quicker or get a line quicker. Compare that with the current attrition at any mainland regional. Granted of course, mainland regionals are expanding while their mainline partners are shrinking.

- Guys with your time who are still flying their consolidation hours as FO's are being upgraded to captains here having spent only like 4 months with the company.


For those of you in the pool, hang in there... we'll have to have another class pretty soon.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

I was trying not to knock Island Air, I said the circumstances after 911 would have been favorable if I HAD gone to Island. Did you get that from my last post? How long have you been at Island Air anyway? The quick upgrade time has not always been the case. Wasn't it not too long ago you could have been an FO in the twatter for 4 years before any movement at all out there??

When all you got is 4 airplanes and 45 pilots there is always the chance things happen rather quickly. I like Island, I am just saying it is not always the best choice. There are much quicker upgrade times out there besides Island Air. Air Midwest, a US Air Express and America West Express Beech 1900 operation (which I might add had a few ex-Island guys at) has had 2 or 3 month upgrade times then their pilots get 80-100 hrs a month. How much time do your pilots get per month? What happens when these 5000+ hr furloughed guys Island is now hiring upgrade at Island Air and have no place to go besides backwards? Do you really think Aloha mainline or Hawaiian will touch a furloughed United or American pilot?

Got Jumpseat, I'd like to add a couple of things regarding Island Air.

Aloha scope has Island Air restricted from flying nonstop between the 5 major airports (HNL, OGG, KOA, ITO, LIH). However, we are free to make a stop at any secondary airport and continue. This was the case after 9/11 when we were flying OGG-ITO and OGG-KOA via either LNY or MKK. When Aloha took back direct flights, we pulled back. IMHO, Island Air's problem is marketing, but that's another issue altogether.

Before you knock Island Air, consider a few things:

- Most people who come here with any kind of flight time will upgrade within 1 year. I came here with 1500TT, spent a year in the right seat, and upgraded to captain. Mind you, this was while most other airlines including most regionals were furloughing. I don't know what the upgrade times are back in the mainland, but I can almost guarantee you that they aren't anywhere near as fast as ours.

- Getting to Aloha from mainland commuter than via Island Air? Well, I dunno... we had brand new captains with as little as 2 weeks online as captains go to Aloha. The exodus continues... Bear in mind that any kind of movement within our ranks is significant because it makes your relative seniority higher enabling you to upgrade quicker or get a line quicker. Compare that with the current attrition at any mainland regional. Granted of course, mainland regionals are expanding while their mainline partners are shrinking.

- Guys with your time who are still flying their consolidation hours as FO's are being upgraded to captains here having spent only like 4 months with the company.

Well if they had told me that I would be a DHC-8 CA right now. Last year they were not sure if the sun would rise the next day and I told them PASS. I played my cards, I still dont have a bad hand as it is, I will wait it out here for AQ or HA.

 

[Freight Dog]

I agree with you that there were times that it took 4 years to move anywhere. But then again, it was no different than any other place, there was no hiring anywhere, so people stayed where they were. When the big hiring started, things started to move. Before I got here, Hawaiian was cleaning up the house, now Aloha is cleaning up the house. I got here at the tail end of Hawaiian's hiring, but I am here during Aloha's hiring, and I just call it like I see it. Most people who left so far had right around 2000 hours TOTAL time give or take a few hundred. We had people with as low as 1600 hours go to Aloha.

As for Mesa and its subsidiaries, sure, before 9/11, they were kicking around a near-instant upgrade in B1900. But a lot of those guys were furloughed after 9/11. We have one FO here who was furloughed from Mesa who was offered a recall and declined it because the upgrade here will be sooner.

I would guess it all depends on what you want and where you want to be... For me, Island Air was the best choice possible. I live where I wanted to live, I upgraded to captain in a very short time, and I'm living the dream....

 

[list2002]

Man, I don't even care how much the pay ends up being. As long as I'm flying, I can't wait to get back home and make a living. It looks like it's going to be a really long time now though. I know 2 HAL pilots with over 6000 hours furloughed. And the high timers getting on with Island Air Doesn't help us scrubs... It's all timing. I was thinking more along the lines of jumpseat and getting more hours in a mainland commuter outfit because the legs are longer, plus the experience with weather and stuff keeps things interesting, but I'm not saying I would let a chance at Island Air go by either. Beggers can't be choosers. I swear, sometimes I read the posts and get all stoked, and sometimes, well... a lot lately, I don't. At least there's some surf where I'm at now, like once a month.
Aloha all.
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