Aloha/Hawaiian info

[Sleepyhead]

Anyone know if Aloha or Hawaiian have any plans to hire in the next couple of months?

 

[HAL]

We (Hawaiian) won't be hiring until at least next year. We don't have any definite expansion plans past the HNL - PHX service to start in October, although there are lot of rumors about east coast service starting next year. If that is true we will need more people.

Aloha has hired a couple classes in the last few months, although they've been very quiet about it. They are trying to expand also, using their 737-700's to smaller cities on the west coast.

HAL

 

[Sleepyhead]

Thanks guys for the info.
The reason I'm interested is because I'm in the pool at Island Air. They are one of the few airlines that will hire furloughed pilots without asking to resign seniority. They told me they might have a class in Oct but it depends on how many pilots leave. Since most of their pilots go to HA or Aloha I was hoping there was some hiring going on.

 

[b757driver]

Hawaiian Hiring Info

HAL/Jim,

Interesting post re HAL.
I am very interested in yr airline & have been following events the past 6 mnths.
A couple of questions:
1. What exactly is the pilot application process @ HAL?
2. Do you send a resume to the PO Box # attn: People Services Grp. ?
3. Would you recommend a copy/cover letter to either the CP or yr new VP Flt. Ops., Robert Glasgow?
4. I hear that internal recommendations give candidates a big advantage. Is this true? If so, what's the best (least obtrusive) way in getting one? I believe you may have a Dan Jones working for you who used to work for my current employer. Also, earlier this year I jumpsat back on UAL from Europe w/one of yr female 767 FOs. I cannot remember her name as she did not give me a business card but she did tell me she was returning from visiting relatives in Scandinavia, had previously worked as a J31 pilot in the D.C. area and was based in LAX on the 767-300ER. Either of these folks ring a bell with you?
5. Besides HNL, are there any other pilot bases/domiciles on the west coast?
6. Do either of you guys ever get to layover in LAS by any chance?

In case you are wondering, I am current on the 757 with the dual 757/767 type on my ATP, 7000+ total time including 2000+ on the 757. I also have some international/overwater experience. Looking @ both yr profiles, I have very similar past experiences in qualifications & types flown.
I may be out on the street in the near future, so any info on the above would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Alex

 

[reepicheep]

I have been sending HAL resumes for about six months. This last time I received a postcard saying they'll keep it on file.

As for recommendations, most people take these pretty seriously; IOW if you don't have a good friend there who you are presumably already in regular contact with then it seems to me you may not really have a legit. contact. Hopefully if they start hiring they will not restrict themselves only to those with "silver bullets".

 

[HAL]

b757driver;
1) The application process is by resume only. Any letters of recc are attached and the decision to interview is made from that.

2) The resume should be sent to our Chief Pilot, Mike Dudley.

3) Probably not - everything should be routed through the CP

4) Don't know Mr. Jones, but the lady 767 FO is a very good friend of mine. However for a letter of recc, we'd really have to know someone pretty well, including their flying abilities to send a recc along with a resume.

5) Our bases are HNL (717, DC-10, 767), LAX (DC-10, 767), SFO (767) and SEA (767).

6) A lot of crews (mostly HNL based) lay over in LAS. If you're based in LAX, it's not often, and from SFO and SEA usually never.

I know a lot of people feel that needing a letter of reccomendation is not fair, but we are a small airline that is innundated with resumes. There has to be some way of sorting through the otherwise qualified applicants, and that is the way the current management has chosen. It's probably no more or less fair than the way other airlines choose their interviewees. At Hawaiian it's a lot like a small family, and since we all spend so much time together, we feel it may be best to 'pick' our family from people we may already feel comfortable with. We still have very high standards for flying ability and experience, but like I said, it's just another way to weed through a mile high stack of resumes.

HAL

 

[HAL]

I just think it's a bit of frustration they're venting, because they may want very much to fly for an airline like Hawaiian (and who can blame them ). But since we're such a relatively small airline, it's tough to actually know someone well enough to get your foot in the door. You may feel your are very well qualified, but getting that letter of recommendation can be frustratingly difficult.

HAL

 

[reepicheep]

I agree every company has a right to choose their own criteria in sifting through the resumes. My problem with basing this only on LOR's is that there is really nothing a person can do to make themselves a better candidate - either your buddy got hired at a particular airline and you've got an "in", or else all your friends happened to het hired by Northwest or American and right now you're out of luck. As HAL correctly points out, just going out and "meeting" pilots from HAL or Alaska or whatever company you want to work for, is really not good enough. A legitimate "silver bullet" is not someone you had on the jumpseat or ran into on the crew bus. And there lies the frustration; I can go out and get a type rating or more PIC time or whatever; but I can't do anything about the airlines my friends got hired by. That, I feel, is the unfortunate thing about the LOR system.

 

[b757driver]

HAL/Jim,

Thank you both for yr replies.

Jim - you guessed correctly, it is National. Looks like we have gotten a reprieve for the time being anyway. But $30M will not last long & in addition, we took a hit of 15% pay cut for 38 months on top of our wage freeze. Morale, as you can imagine, is rock bottom right now.
Re LORs, I can relate as we, too are a "small family" company (smaller than you). Just thought that with planned expansion next year someone w/7000+ hrs, 757/767 types & international experience as well, would have a REASONABLE shot @ an interview.
As for majors, I'm not interested - I prefer the smaller companies & am interested in HAL for a variety of reasons.
I guess all I can do is to go for it & hope not knowing someone @ HAL won't hold me back.
On another note, I came across a site with gouges on interview/sim profiles for all the majors incl. HAL but can't recall where it is. Any ideas?
Many thanks, once again.

 

[HAL]

The Willflyforfood site has a couple reports on our interview process. I don't know if (or how much) the process will change next time around, but I'd bet it'll be mostly the same.

The site is at:

http://www.megaone.com/willfly4food

Scroll down the the "H" section and there we are.

Good luck now at N7, and if worse comes to worse, hope to see you on the line here at Hawaiian.

HAL

 

[Mach92]

Could you post HAL pay rates. Thanks

 

[jdsugar]

Anyone also care to post HAL and Aloha work days/month and retirement benefits, profit sharing, 401k, etc? Thanks in advance.

 

[Sleepyhead]

Hey Jim,
When were you at Scenic? I flew there from 5/96 - 9/97.

Hog

 

[HERCDRVR]

Just had a buddy who interviewed with Aloha this week. Haven't heard the results or numbers, but still, encouraging that the interviews are happening!

Jimbo

 

[inseattlewa]

HAL vs ALO

Wondering if anyone has any input on which airline is the better. I don't see anyone from ALO posting here. I have a couple of friends from each and i'm not sure who seems to have the better deal! You HAL guys-

What is your schedule like? How many hrs a month are ya flying?
What kind of financial shape are you in?
Did that $50M loss for the first half of the year slow hiring?
What is your relationship with the ALO guys?

ALO guys-

What is your schedule like? hrs/month?
Are you guys privately held? If so, what is your financial condition?
I understand you are still hiring as many as you can, how long is this going to continue?
What is your relationship with the HAL gusy?

Thanks for the info in advance. You both look like good companies. My buds seem to enjoy both. Seems like equipment and domiciles go to HAL but pay and bennies go to ALO. Curious to see what else comes up!

ISEA

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Jim, if everything you wrote below is true, then what are all these rumors about furloughs at Hawaiian again? I have many friends at HA & AQ and all I hear is the expansion is over at HA or at least on hold indefinately. Meanwhile AQ is running classes non-stop for the forseeable future. What's really going on over there? HA is my first choice but I am about to go to AQ instead, I am tired of waiting. I am not the only one.

To elaborate on HAL's previous post. I've gotten the following from the Chief Pilot and various union leaders...

As HAL said, the only announced expansion is the PHX service to starting in Oct. Further, we have trimmed some fat off our schedule starting in Sept by changing some flights from daily to 3x, 4x or 5x weekly.

That being said, there are currently signs all over the tourist areas in HNL and at the shopping malls that show a map with a bunch of red dots labeled with our current destinations. The caption says "Seeing spots? You'll soon see more." There are rumors that we will announce at least 5 new destinations in the mid and eastern US for spring 2003. My union rep actually named the cities for me and said we would have to hire in early 2003 if we wanted to start service in late spring/early summer.

Management is currently looking at acquiring 757s to augment the ordered 767s. The union has been asked to negotiate 757 rates, but we have other issues to resolve first. Hawaiian looked at National closely, but did not make an offer as their 757s are not ETOPS and it would cost too much to modify them (this National bit was from our majority stockholder, John Adams.)

The CP told me he doesn't expect any hiring until after the first of the year. He also said there are 19 pilots in our hiring pool and the hiring committee is working on making a "to be interviewed list".

Aloha is trying to expand it's international market. To stay competative and keep market share, Hawaiian has to match this expansion.

Bottomline from my short tenure here after furlough...the future is looking good. I expect more growth/hiring next year.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

What can I say, things change quickly......and being 5 from the bottom of the senority list, I am definitely keeping track of things.

A month ago, the former Assistant Chief Pilot who still heads up interviewing showed me a list of 25 names to be interviewed (my friend was on it). He expected to be interviewing by to first of the year.

A week ago, John Adams (the CEO / majority stockholder) said "furloughs are going to happen". It was at a company wide meeting and it's not for sure that he meant pilots or company-wide. It kind of depends on what happens with our routes/expansion.

It seems to me the Chief Pilot's office and Adams office are frustratingly not on the same page when it comes to pilot staffing at HAL. Q; Do any of those 25 people on the list have a way of finding out if they are on that list??

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Not really, I was quite surprised when he showed it to me. I've seen him since and he said the whole process was put on hold shortly after he showed it to me.

Why doesnt that surprise me? Well I am very interested to see how the PHX run works out for HA. This has the potential to turn everything around for Pualani. Its the first time low-cost discount airfares have been available through a big mainland hub in a long time. HP lost so much money with their 747 HNL service it was called the non-rev express. I really think this partnership could work out for both HA & HP. I sure hope it does.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Hawaiian Furlough

Twice today I heard Hawaiian is letting go of 80-85 pilots. Anybody else know what the deal is?

 

[jenga]

I dont have any idea what the deal is, but yesterday I heard the same - that Hawaiian is gonna furlough 85 pilots.

If it happens, I hope it doesnt roll back to Island Air.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

rollback

What I was told by Phyllis last year was the only reason some furloughed AQ pilots were allowed back to Island Air was they were on previously approved LOA's from Island while going through AQ's training.

The most junior pilot at Hawaiian has been there over 14 months. I dont think its possible unless they went to the bottom of Island Air's list as a new hire again. They are an ALPA carrier with a contract they're supposed to follow.

 

[HAL]

I'm not sure where you've heard this rumor, because we haven't heard anything on the property about it. And as Jim and I have said before in this thread, management just finished a new vacancy bid effective for February, and I don't think they'd have done if if furloughs were in the mix. It just seems like a wild rumor started by someone not happy with HA. (AQ pilot maybe?)

That's not to say they may not come in the future because of the reduction in interisland flying that comes with the agreement with Aloha. But to have a hard-and-fast number like 85 right now seems pretty unlikely.

HAL

 

[jenga]

jumpseat,

Thanks for the rollback info. I feel a little better. I'll feel much better when IA has a class and I'm in it.
Are you at IA now?

HAL,

Last week I "heard" from a couple sources (friend of a friend type deals) that there could be furloughs in the near future. Then yesterday I "heard" the 85 number. I was definitely surprised (and bummed for youz guyz) to hear that high of a specific number. I hope for everyone there that this is not true at all and that it never happens. Hopefully it's just a wild rumor.

Do you think that antitrust interisland deal will kick up ops at IA?
Just curious what your opinion is.

 

[Sleepyhead]

My friend's neighbor flys for HA, that is were I heard the furlough rumor. I assume he heard it going around at flight ops. Hope it doesn't haqppen.

I have another friend at Island. He said the only pilots Island took back from HA were becuase they were check pilots at Island.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

jumpseat,

Thanks for the rollback info. I feel a little better. I'll feel much better when IA has a class and I'm in it.
Are you at IA now?

Do you think that antitrust interisland deal will kick up ops at IA?
Just curious what your opinion is.

No I almost went to Island after suffering a severe case of homesickness but opted to stick it out at a mainland 121 commuter airline. I didn't want to be at the bottom of some "Island Air Pilot" hiring list (if one exists). I know I will get in at AQ or HA quicker by staying away from Island. I get all kinds of weather and its more like a real airline and I fly a jet. I have reasonable seniority and even though I work on the mainland I have more time off IN HAWAII than ever before. I make the commute back and forth over the water 2 or 3x's a month.

Aloha has strict scope regarding Island Air. I dont expect to see a big boom there beyond their 4 DHC-8's without large gains in other areas for mainline AQ pilots. Do you know what scope is? Hopefully for all of us it is a word that will never become too common in Hawaii.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

I'm not sure where you've heard this rumor, because we haven't heard anything on the property about it. And as Jim and I have said before in this thread, management just finished a new vacancy bid effective for February, and I don't think they'd have done if if furloughs were in the mix. It just seems like a wild rumor started by someone not happy with HA. (AQ pilot maybe?)

That's not to say they may not come in the future because of the reduction in interisland flying that comes with the agreement with Aloha. But to have a hard-and-fast number like 85 right now seems pretty unlikely.

HAL

I just did a three day trip and jumped on HA both ways out of LAX and both crews had heard the "furlough rumor" but neither had heard the 85 number.

I am always amazed how rumors start. I heard the 85 number from three different, un-related people on the same day. Glad to realize its just wildfire and nothing more.

 

[Freight Dog]

Got Jumpseat, I'd like to add a couple of things regarding Island Air.

Aloha scope has Island Air restricted from flying nonstop between the 5 major airports (HNL, OGG, KOA, ITO, LIH). However, we are free to make a stop at any secondary airport and continue. This was the case after 9/11 when we were flying OGG-ITO and OGG-KOA via either LNY or MKK. When Aloha took back direct flights, we pulled back. IMHO, Island Air's problem is marketing, but that's another issue altogether.

Before you knock Island Air, consider a few things:

- Most people who come here with any kind of flight time will upgrade within 1 year. I came here with 1500TT, spent a year in the right seat, and upgraded to captain. Mind you, this was while most other airlines including most regionals were furloughing. I don't know what the upgrade times are back in the mainland, but I can almost guarantee you that they aren't anywhere near as fast as ours.

- Getting to Aloha from mainland commuter than via Island Air? Well, I dunno... we had brand new captains with as little as 2 weeks online as captains go to Aloha. The exodus continues... Bear in mind that any kind of movement within our ranks is significant because it makes your relative seniority higher enabling you to upgrade quicker or get a line quicker. Compare that with the current attrition at any mainland regional. Granted of course, mainland regionals are expanding while their mainline partners are shrinking.

- Guys with your time who are still flying their consolidation hours as FO's are being upgraded to captains here having spent only like 4 months with the company.


For those of you in the pool, hang in there... we'll have to have another class pretty soon.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

I was trying not to knock Island Air, I said the circumstances after 911 would have been favorable if I HAD gone to Island. Did you get that from my last post? How long have you been at Island Air anyway? The quick upgrade time has not always been the case. Wasn't it not too long ago you could have been an FO in the twatter for 4 years before any movement at all out there??

When all you got is 4 airplanes and 45 pilots there is always the chance things happen rather quickly. I like Island, I am just saying it is not always the best choice. There are much quicker upgrade times out there besides Island Air. Air Midwest, a US Air Express and America West Express Beech 1900 operation (which I might add had a few ex-Island guys at) has had 2 or 3 month upgrade times then their pilots get 80-100 hrs a month. How much time do your pilots get per month? What happens when these 5000+ hr furloughed guys Island is now hiring upgrade at Island Air and have no place to go besides backwards? Do you really think Aloha mainline or Hawaiian will touch a furloughed United or American pilot?

Got Jumpseat, I'd like to add a couple of things regarding Island Air.

Aloha scope has Island Air restricted from flying nonstop between the 5 major airports (HNL, OGG, KOA, ITO, LIH). However, we are free to make a stop at any secondary airport and continue. This was the case after 9/11 when we were flying OGG-ITO and OGG-KOA via either LNY or MKK. When Aloha took back direct flights, we pulled back. IMHO, Island Air's problem is marketing, but that's another issue altogether.

Before you knock Island Air, consider a few things:

- Most people who come here with any kind of flight time will upgrade within 1 year. I came here with 1500TT, spent a year in the right seat, and upgraded to captain. Mind you, this was while most other airlines including most regionals were furloughing. I don't know what the upgrade times are back in the mainland, but I can almost guarantee you that they aren't anywhere near as fast as ours.

- Getting to Aloha from mainland commuter than via Island Air? Well, I dunno... we had brand new captains with as little as 2 weeks online as captains go to Aloha. The exodus continues... Bear in mind that any kind of movement within our ranks is significant because it makes your relative seniority higher enabling you to upgrade quicker or get a line quicker. Compare that with the current attrition at any mainland regional. Granted of course, mainland regionals are expanding while their mainline partners are shrinking.

- Guys with your time who are still flying their consolidation hours as FO's are being upgraded to captains here having spent only like 4 months with the company.

Well if they had told me that I would be a DHC-8 CA right now. Last year they were not sure if the sun would rise the next day and I told them PASS. I played my cards, I still dont have a bad hand as it is, I will wait it out here for AQ or HA.

 

[Freight Dog]

I agree with you that there were times that it took 4 years to move anywhere. But then again, it was no different than any other place, there was no hiring anywhere, so people stayed where they were. When the big hiring started, things started to move. Before I got here, Hawaiian was cleaning up the house, now Aloha is cleaning up the house. I got here at the tail end of Hawaiian's hiring, but I am here during Aloha's hiring, and I just call it like I see it. Most people who left so far had right around 2000 hours TOTAL time give or take a few hundred. We had people with as low as 1600 hours go to Aloha.

As for Mesa and its subsidiaries, sure, before 9/11, they were kicking around a near-instant upgrade in B1900. But a lot of those guys were furloughed after 9/11. We have one FO here who was furloughed from Mesa who was offered a recall and declined it because the upgrade here will be sooner.

I would guess it all depends on what you want and where you want to be... For me, Island Air was the best choice possible. I live where I wanted to live, I upgraded to captain in a very short time, and I'm living the dream....

 

[list2002]

Man, I don't even care how much the pay ends up being. As long as I'm flying, I can't wait to get back home and make a living. It looks like it's going to be a really long time now though. I know 2 HAL pilots with over 6000 hours furloughed. And the high timers getting on with Island Air Doesn't help us scrubs... It's all timing. I was thinking more along the lines of jumpseat and getting more hours in a mainland commuter outfit because the legs are longer, plus the experience with weather and stuff keeps things interesting, but I'm not saying I would let a chance at Island Air go by either. Beggers can't be choosers. I swear, sometimes I read the posts and get all stoked, and sometimes, well... a lot lately, I don't. At least there's some surf where I'm at now, like once a month.
Aloha all.
list