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Aloha ʻino Mesa! Shame On You!

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Uhm... Mesa sucks?

If the rumor is true - I can't believe that they're going to try to fly out here non-union. Yeah, of course the company thinks it'll save money...but sheesh. Talk about problems.
 
Der Kommissar said:
Uhm... Mesa sucks?

If the rumor is true - I can't believe that they're going to try to fly out here non-union. Yeah, of course the company thinks it'll save money...but sheesh. Talk about problems.
Click to expand...

I have said all along Mesa is after the AQ 737 certificate in order to use our airplanes to bring down whats left of the entire industry. The Mesa CEO wants to bust ALPA national.

Any Mesa guys want to call "BS" on that one?
 
I may not have the correct understanding of this, but isn't the ETOPS certificate kinda aircraft specific? Or is it that once they theoretically grab AQs cert they can fly 737s ETOPS anywhere they want?

I'm not saying it's not a really crappy thing to do, but how would it bring down the industry? I must be missing something.
 
I think he's implying that JO getting 73's would allow him to operate them with a non-union group, flying for mcdonald's wages, (which a ton of little fukker's would be willing to do in a heartbeat) which would cause a knee-jerk reaction by the rest of the industry to lower cost's in order to compete.
 
Der Kommissar said:
I may not have the correct understanding of this, but isn't the ETOPS certificate kinda aircraft specific? Or is it that once they theoretically grab AQs cert they can fly 737s ETOPS anywhere they want?

I'm not saying it's not a really crappy thing to do, but how would it bring down the industry? I must be missing something.
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I'm not an expert on ETOPS certification, I am not sure if JO even wants the ETOPS flying, I doubt he could maintain the certification even if he tried. You cant just MEL certain stuff and launch (the mesa way) out over the Pacific. Our inter-island fleet is not ETOPS. Its all short haul 737 stuff.

Anyway, Mesa wants 737's... thats no secret. In a speech to his MEC last week he demanded 737 pay rates they "could live with" immediately!

What he plans on dong with them I can only imagine. JO probably thinks he can profit off the 1113c craze. Say he got a dozen 737's and the pilots are flying them at 90 seat RJ pay (his last offer to his MEC) he might be able to BS his way into getting a BK judge to award him flying away from much higher paid ALPA pilots. (Maybe even higher paid ALPA pilots that are on strike -- check the recent Delta threads) Thats pure speculation on my part but I bet dimes to dollars i'm not too far off the mark!

I agree he is nuts to think he can get away with it but he could end up getting court sanctioned into some narrow body flying. I have read recent speeches of his and I tell you..... he thinks he can do it. He would make a KILLING unlike any before if he pulled it off too.
 
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mdanno808 said:
I think he's implying that JO getting 73's would allow him to operate them with a non-union group, flying for mcdonald's wages, (which a ton of little fukker's would be willing to do in a heartbeat) which would cause a knee-jerk reaction by the rest of the industry to lower cost's in order to compete.
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Mesa rumors last year had a pair or three 737-200's hidden out in Grand Junction or Montrose CO last year. IF TRUE, how much you want to bet that JO's loyal crew that helped him launch Desert Sun and Freedom are already typed and checked out as instructors in the 737?

Now thats a conspiracy theory!
 
I don't think any of us here at Mesa know what JO has up his sleeves on this whole Hawaii thing. Personally, I hope he gets his ass handed to him...even if it's at our own expense. If he tries to pull off another Freedom (and who doubts he will?) I would really, really hope that there's enough new blood in this group to simply walk away. I know I would.

As is oftentimes said, JO is a cancer...he won't stop unless something stops him/it. All the aviation trade press continues to glorify him for being such a great businessman, pulling off all the deals (at others expense, of course) and further inflating his ego. He needs to fall flat on his face. And fall HARD!

Islandhopper, I hope you're wrong about the 737's, but I have a feeling you may be on to something. I just really hope JO never gets his hands on one...
 
Earl Williams said:
Islandhopper, I hope you're wrong about the 737's, but I have a feeling you may be on to something. I just really hope JO never gets his hands on one...
Click to expand...

I hope I am wrong too but being directly involved at Aloha as part of a "Mesa workgroup" I can only tell you this... what I say I am sure of, I am sure of. If I am speculating, I mention that as well.

Heres a quick summary to bring any new visitors up to speed.

[FONT=&quot]. JO was bragging to his employees for two weeks before the Yucaipa announcement that “He already owned Aloha” and an announcement was pending. Ask any mesa employee that went to the PHX sun & fun picnic this year!

. JO has demanded 737 pay rates from his pilots for at least a year and a half. They only ask for a written offer. The Mesa MEC would gladly accept 737's on the property if paid enough to fly them.
[/FONT] http://www.thestreet.com/_tscana/markets/ericgillin/10161930.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04146/321454.stm

. Mesa has been known in the past to try and bluff their way into somebody elses flying, often somebody else with LABOR issues! if you dont see the parallel here I cant help you.
http://www.mesa-air.com/article_05222001a.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2001/07/02/daily23.html


I have much more than this on Mesa, but this is the basic idea here... And if any JO snitches are reading this you can tell him I said to kiss my a$$! He only WISHES this forum is the only place where I pass on this info!

His big mouth always blows his own deals. If he was half as smart as he is given credit for he would shut his grill!!!
 
islandhopper said:
I saw it... The tail is still blank. Now can we please get back to bashing Mesa?
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Of course it's blank, it's a rental for God's sake.

While I applaud your research in this thread, you're going to end up giving yourself an aneurysm.
 
dash8driver said:
well, make sure you drive it like one.

you know what the difference is between a 4x4 and a rental car?



a rental car can go ANYWHERE!

.
Click to expand...

C'mon Dash8driver, you know that Island Air already does. They fly into Kapalua. I think they'd take less abuse if you welded an arrestor hook on them and flew them onto carriers. :)

As for the 737 comments earlier, now I get it. If this guy can get a group of people to fly 737s at non-union rates... then other companies might jump on it too. Gotcha.

Jeez. Flying sounded a lot more fun when I was growing up talking to the TWA 727 Captain that lived across the street from me in Kansas City, MO in the 70s! I'm almost glad that things worked out the way they did - that I'm not working as a dispatcher anymore, I mean. I really loved the work, but holy crap this industry is just about as unstable as a wolverine on crack.
 
RJP said:
Of course it's blank, it's a rental for God's sake.

While I applaud your research in this thread, you're going to end up giving yourself an aneurysm.
Click to expand...

you're probably right.
 
Island Hopper,

I'll call B.S. on the fact that J.O. is after Aloha Certificate in order to operate 737's. I agree he wants 737's, as evident by the constant attempt to get payrates from our M.E.C. He has been quoted in various public events that he intends to fly 737's at Mesa. So I'll concede the fact to you that Mesa will one day operate narrow body aircraft (not necessarly 737's). Do you think he needs (or at this point wants) the aloha certificate to do it? NO. We already have the Midway certificate. Also, considering his track record with putting new aircraft on a certificate (ie. freedom), adding 737's to any of the many certificates currently under Mesa control would take all but 3 months. Having said that I do believe he was after Aloha. For reasons I wouldn't dare speculate on he was unsuccesful in his attempts to gain control of your airline. So, as there is more than one way to skin a cat, he decided on this independent venture. Will it be succesfull? I doubt it. If you run the CASM vs RASM for any inter-island flying (regardless of aircraft used) there just isn't alot of money in that market alone. Do you think J.O. is after the inter-island market? No, it is to small and insignificant. He is after something bigger. Just speculating here, (I repeat JUST SPECULATING) he wants Aloha's mainland routes with the possibility to expand to Asia. That is the only "real" value of Aloha's route structure. So while it would have been much easier to take over Aloha that bid failed. We are simply witnessing plan "B." By the way good luck to you and everyone at Aloha with your fight against management. Like you, I would come join any picket line you guys put together.
 
chicago said:
Island Hopper,

I'll call B.S. on the fact that J.O. is after Aloha Certificate in order to operate 737's. I agree he wants 737's, as evident by the constant attempt to get payrates from our M.E.C. He has been quoted in various public events that he intends to fly 737's at Mesa. So I'll concede the fact to you that Mesa will one day operate narrow body aircraft (not necessarly 737's). Do you think he needs (or at this point wants) the aloha certificate to do it? NO. We already have the Midway certificate. Also, considering his track record with putting new aircraft on a certificate (ie. freedom), adding 737's to any of the many certificates currently under Mesa control would take all but 3 months. Having said that I do believe he was after Aloha. For reasons I wouldn't dare speculate on he was unsuccesful in his attempts to gain control of your airline. So, as there is more than one way to skin a cat, he decided on this independent venture. Will it be succesfull? I doubt it. If you run the CASM vs RASM for any inter-island flying (regardless of aircraft used) there just isn't alot of money in that market alone. Do you think J.O. is after the inter-island market? No, it is to small and insignificant. He is after something bigger. Just speculating here, (I repeat JUST SPECULATING) he wants Aloha's mainland routes with the possibility to expand to Asia. That is the only "real" value of Aloha's route structure. So while it would have been much easier to take over Aloha that bid failed. We are simply witnessing plan "B." By the way good luck to you and everyone at Aloha with your fight against management. Like you, I would come join any picket line you guys put together.
Click to expand...

Asia in a 737?
 
I think you could make Guam - Tokyo
 
Der Kommissar said:
"Asia in a 737?"

Sure - that'd be the HNL - Wake - Guam - Manila - Tokyo route. :)
Click to expand...

maybe he figures if he can eventually operate in india he can outsource from there and whipsaw all the other pilots with 9 year old indian kids. he's probably going to do some contract servicing too. on the cruise portions of the legs, layovers and turns the pilots will have to take calls for dell tech support.




.
 

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