Aloha ʻino Mesa! Shame On You!

[Der Kommissar]

sure..but why pass up a layover in MNL?
.

Exactly. You can hide it under "bringing more service to the people of the world" if you want.

Hey Smash8 - how far did you guys fly the -200s there for a while? Wasn't it like the Marshall Islands or somethin like that?

 

[dash8driver]

Hey Smash8

hey.. you're only 'posed to call me that when we're alone..

- how far did you guys fly the -200s there for a while? Wasn't it like the Marshall Islands or somethin like that?

maj/kwaj, christmas island, etc.





.

 

[RJP]

sure..but why pass up a layover in MNL?

Ahhhh.....you beat me to it. I'd never make it past the P.I.....

 

[islandhopper]

Island Hopper,

I'll call B.S. on the fact that J.O. is after Aloha Certificate in order to operate 737's. I agree he wants 737's, as evident by the constant attempt to get payrates from our M.E.C. He has been quoted in various public events that he intends to fly 737's at Mesa. So I'll concede the fact to you that Mesa will one day operate narrow body aircraft (not necessarly 737's). Do you think he needs (or at this point wants) the aloha certificate to do it? NO. We already have the Midway certificate. Also, considering his track record with putting new aircraft on a certificate (ie. freedom), adding 737's to any of the many certificates currently under Mesa control would take all but 3 months. Having said that I do believe he was after Aloha. For reasons I wouldn't dare speculate on he was unsuccesful in his attempts to gain control of your airline. So, as there is more than one way to skin a cat, he decided on this independent venture. Will it be succesfull? I doubt it. If you run the CASM vs RASM for any inter-island flying (regardless of aircraft used) there just isn't alot of money in that market alone. Do you think J.O. is after the inter-island market? No, it is to small and insignificant. He is after something bigger. Just speculating here, (I repeat JUST SPECULATING) he wants Aloha's mainland routes with the possibility to expand to Asia. That is the only "real" value of Aloha's route structure. So while it would have been much easier to take over Aloha that bid failed. We are simply witnessing plan "B." By the way good luck to you and everyone at Aloha with your fight against management. Like you, I would come join any picket line you guys put together.

Good post. The only other thing is that even if he gets these old CRJ-200's for free (as he has been bragging) the operation still doesn't make very much sense. Brand new 900's? Even less sense. If these two aircraft show absolutely no intelligent design flying in Hawaii they must be coming out here for a different reason. What is that reason? Look to the obvious. He is bullying somebody. Is it Aloha? Bombardier? USAir? As FlyI has proven just having airplanes doesn't mean you should fly them. How many times has JO been quoted saying the RJ's costs are much to high to fly independently?

I got him saying it as recently as a week ago Friday in his interview to the PBN.

And we do have rights to one or two Asian cities I am aware of.

I never knew he picked up the Midway cert. I wasnt watching Mesa when it happened. Looking at the dates (2003) I was in my first year at Aloha and spending my time off at the beach. Thanks for the tip on Midway... They never had 737's did they? Just RJ's....

 

[squall line]

Midway has had quite a few aircraft types. Most recently they had 737-700's and CRJ 200's.

sl

 

[Kevski]

Ahhhh.....you beat me to it. I'd never make it past the P.I.....

Nah... you'd never make it past the LBFMs!

 

[Der Kommissar]

Instead of "little brown" it'd be "Lady Boy" for him But that's cool... attack drivers are always on the fringe anyway.

I thought midway was closed? Or did it re-open again? The last time I had to check NOTAMS was way back in February.

 

[stall022]

Instead of "little brown" it'd be "Lady Boy" for him But that's cool... attack drivers are always on the fringe anyway.

I thought midway was closed? Or did it re-open again? The last time I had to check NOTAMS was way back in February.

Midway Airlines.. Mesa purchased the operating certificate after they went bankrupt a few years ago which had CRJ's and 737's on the certificate.. I believe it's a dead certificate tho since you must have atleast one aircraft and somekind of management structure remaining after six months or a year to keep the certificate alive??

 

[RJP]

Instead of "little brown" it'd be "Lady Boy" for him But that's cool... attack drivers are always on the fringe anyway.

I thought midway was closed? Or did it re-open again? The last time I had to check NOTAMS was way back in February.

I think the term is "pseudo-women" but I'm not sure.

I see that the AQ FAs caved yesterday and gave up their medical for retirees and have to pay for part of their medical coverage now.

http://starbulletin.com/print/2005.php?fr=/2005/11/16/business/story01.html

 

[Der Kommissar]

Jeez... how much left is there to give? I mean, ya gotta have some reason to come to work.

 

[relief tube]

what's next? Mesa starting an inter-china shuttle? Course, China's the only part of the world whose population is willing to work for less than Mesa's contract. Wait.....maybee not.

I'd give 100 bucks to take a 'sheeit' in JO's stocking. Mesa, do yourselves and the rest of us a favor and get your contract up.

 

[synchoff]

Why won't this dog lie down and die?

Midway Airlines.. Mesa purchased the operating certificate after they went bankrupt a few years ago which had CRJ's and 737's on the certificate.. I believe it's a dead certificate tho since you must have atleast one aircraft and somekind of management structure remaining after six months or a year to keep the certificate alive??

Mesa spent 9 million and got some CRJ200's and misc ground equipment out of the Midway deal. The certificate was returned to the FAA when it went defunct.

Gotta keep it flying to keep the certificate valid. This was why Freedom Airlines had 1 or 2 Beech 1900's on it for a year doing minimal service for Mesa Air Group . . . to keep the certificate active (lord knows Mesa dosen't need 2 certificates to fly 1900's).

Freedom is now being "retooled" to fly ERJ's for MAG as Delta Express . . . it IS ALPA, and ALPA will NEVER, EVER, EVER sign off on any subsidiary of Mesa to fly 737s. Midway is not an option. MAG, in it's current embodiment, will never fly narrow bodies . . . so watch for a new "investment group" to move in that direction (with Mesa owning 49%).

For a list of valid (re: non-defunct) operating certificates:

http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/certific/certlist.pdf#search='Certificated%20Air%20Carriers'

 

[stall022]

Mesa spent 9 million and got some CRJ200's and misc ground equipment out of the Midway deal. The certificate was returned to the FAA when it went defunct.

Gotta keep it flying to keep the certificate valid. This was why Freedom Airlines had 1 or 2 Beech 1900's on it for a year doing minimal service for Mesa Air Group . . . to keep the certificate active (lord knows Mesa dosen't need 2 certificates to fly 1900's).

Freedom is now being "retooled" to fly ERJ's for MAG as Delta Express . . . it IS ALPA, and ALPA will NEVER, EVER, EVER sign off on any subsidiary of Mesa to fly 737s. Midway is not an option. MAG, in it's current embodiment, will never fly narrow bodies . . . so watch for a new "investment group" to move in that direction (with Mesa owning 49%).

For a list of valid (re: non-defunct) operating certificates:

http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/certific/certlist.pdf#search='Certificated%20Air%20Carriers'

never say never... the MEC/ALPA sent us up the river on the last contract.. AH has been asked again to put together narrow body rate which I’m sure will be well below industry average like the last time.. but I do agree that JO is up to something with this whole deal. JO did have a 737 leased and parked in the desert they had pictures and the leasing agreement on the company computer hard drive around a year ago.


as for the ERJ's I’m one of the many that are getting screwed and being forced down to MCO. But if the judge passes the Delta 1113c filing Freedom certificate will not be needed, which I think is what they have been planning since they are duel qualifying the ERJ people on both the Mesa and Freedom side of things for 12 months so we will only need a PC to come back to Mesa, if/once that happens the Freedom certificate will again be free to place 737 on at a later date. basically I don't think we've seen the last of the 737's at Mesa.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Our VP of Marketing (AWA) spoke at our ground school back in September. Several of the pilots asked him about Mesa Airlines.

His response was basically that our management doesn't like Mesa at all. He said that if he had been the VP of Marketing back when the Mesa deal was being negotiated he never would have signed it. He also said that if he could he would drop them tomorrow he would. He was very clear that AWA management is not pleased with Mesa.

So basically we are stuck with Mesa until the contract is up, which is 2012 I believe.

Even though we are going to get our own 90 seaters Mesa will continue to fly RJ's for AWA/US Airways until their contract is up. After that, though, I wouldn't count on seeing Mesa do flights for us.

This post is not a slam to Mesa pilots. I know that you just show up and fly the planes like everybody else.

 

[synchoff]

Even though we are going to get our own 90 seaters Mesa will continue to fly RJ's for AWA/US Airways until their contract is up.

Really? You're getting 90 seaters? Which? And when?

Scuttlebutt at Mesa is the only reason we're flying them in the first place is that the Am West pilot group wouldn't fly em for what your management was willing to pay. So I guess thats changed? . . . . Except how could it, because you're not exactly profitable . . . .

Not to be a prick (well, maybe a little), but I don't really believe it. I AM getting a little sick of AmWest pilots kissing my butt to get in the CRJ 900 jumpseat, then getting not-so-clever digs in return when I ask for some reciprocation . . .

 

[islandhopper]

I think the term is "pseudo-women" but I'm not sure.

I see that the AQ FAs caved yesterday and gave up their medical for retirees and have to pay for part of their medical coverage now.

http://starbulletin.com/print/2005.php?fr=/2005/11/16/business/story01.html

I wouldnt exactly say the FA's caved. Actually the company went with the FA's 16 day old offer "as is", just to make the pilots look like the only bad guys left. If anybody caved it was AQ management by taking a 16/17 day old offer with no further concessions.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Really? You're getting 90 seaters? Which? And when?

Scuttlebutt at Mesa is the only reason we're flying them in the first place is that the Am West pilot group wouldn't fly em for what your management was willing to pay. So I guess thats changed? . . . . Except how could it, because you're not exactly profitable . . . .

Not to be a prick (well, maybe a little), but I don't really believe it. I AM getting a little sick of AmWest pilots kissing my butt to get in the CRJ 900 jumpseat, then getting not-so-clever digs in return when I ask for some reciprocation . . .

We just voted for the pay rates on the EMB-190. It will pass and we will pick up our deliveries starting in 2008 (25 with options for 25-30 more). You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Where have you been? You need to do a little research before you say or post anything.

Trust me, our guys will fly them for lower pay if it means getting rid of Mesa. Unlike you we will eventually get the pay rates up. That's exactly why I, and several of my friends voted yes.

We're not exactly profitable?? Well the only reason you're around is because you're codesharing with us, so as far as you're concerned we're the most profitable airline around. BTW, I'm sure that your terrible performance helps drive our passengers to Southwest thus reducing our profit.

Sick of us kissing your butt to get in the jumpseat??? Ha!!! Don't flatter yourself. I would never kiss your butt to get in. I'll ask politely once and if you give me any attitude I'll tell you to screw yourself and find another way to get where I'm going. I would have no problem doing that right to your face.

We have several pilots who won't even consider riding on Mesa. They will drive two hours to an airport that is served by AWA just so they don't have to put up with guys like you.

Not to be a prick?? You sound like a prick to me. You wouldn't mind telling me who you are so I can welcome you into our jumpseat after you've kissed my butt?

I'm getting sick of Am West pilots blah blah blah. Stop whining...you're breaking my heart.

You got a problem with the fact that AWA management doesn't like you feel free to write to CEO Doug Parker or VP of Marketing Scott Kirby.

I told you in the first place that I was not attacking Mesa pilots. Didn't they teach you to read in Farmington???

 

[RJP]

I wouldnt exactly say the FA's caved. Actually the company went with the FA's 16 day old offer "as is", just to make the pilots look like the only bad guys left. If anybody caved it was AQ management by taking a 16/17 day old offer with no further concessions.

Call it what you want. After the beatings all your labor unions have taken, the threat of a 1113C and liquidation, etc, everything else that's given up is caving, whether it be large or small scale. I'm not bashing the FAs, they did what they thought was best for themselves, but they've left the pilot group standing alone with your johnsons flapping in the breeze. And, as you've said, the company will make you look like the bad guys that won't sign like everyone else.

Hang in there! No pun intended.

 

[synchoff]

We just voted for the pay rates on the EMB-190. It will pass and we will pick up our deliveries starting in 2008 (25 with options for 25-30 more). You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Where have you been? You need to do a little research before you say or post anything.

Trust me, our guys will fly them for lower pay if it means getting rid of Mesa.

Interesting. Thanks for the info on the ERJ 190. 2008 is a LONG way away though.

Now you're saying your 1st officers will accept a pay rate of $23k per year (re: "we'll fly em for lower pay before") . . . just to "get rid" of Mesa? HAH! I DON'T BELIEVE IT! You screwed up the CRJ 900, you'll do the same here.

ROTFLMAO! Now THAT'S a rational decision! Actually, it makes me happy, cuz that just shows you guys are so stupid you'll strike in a couple o'years, and that just means more outsourcing in the long run . . .

As to our performance . . . I just love looking at YOUR website for "ontime" percentages by YOUR flight numbers . . . 70%, 60%, 40% not uncommon . . . don't kid yourself, AmWest ain't called a "Big Mesa" for nothing . .

As to the implication that we're profitable because you pay the bills . . . that's true, sort of. If you could do it for cheaper, you would. You can't. Mesa provides an invaluable service to your company. Frankly, I've long believed that OUR low wages subsidize YOUR high wages . . . and the sad part is, yours aren't high anyway . . .

I'm not attacking AmWest pilots either . . . but I think it's safe to say that this whole mess is a marriage of convenience, not mutual affection . . .

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Interesting. Thanks for the info on the ERJ 190. 2008 is a LONG way away though.

Now you're saying your 1st officers will accept a pay rate of $23k per year (re: "we'll fly em for lower pay before") . . . just to "get rid" of Mesa? HAH! I DON'T BELIEVE IT! You screwed up the CRJ 900, you'll do the same here.

ROTFLMAO! Now THAT'S a rational decision! Actually, it makes me happy, cuz that just shows you guys are so stupid you'll strike in a couple o'years, and that just means more outsourcing in the long run . . .

As to our performance . . . I just love looking at YOUR website for "ontime" percentages by YOUR flight numbers . . . 70%, 60%, 40% not uncommon . . . don't kid yourself, AmWest ain't called a "Big Mesa" for nothing . .

As to the implication that we're profitable because you pay the bills . . . that's true, sort of. If you could do it for cheaper, you would. You can't. Mesa provides an invaluable service to your company. Frankly, I've long believed that OUR low wages subsidize YOUR high wages . . . and the sad part is, yours aren't high anyway . . .

I'm not attacking AmWest pilots either . . . but I think it's safe to say that this whole mess is a marriage of convenience, not mutual affection . . .

You are an idiot. I'm sorry but you are.

This rhetoric is not my opinion. This is what our management says about you. Do you understand this??? Our guys don't like you. They want to get rid of you. Scott Kirby said this. I was there.

For you to argue with me about AWA management's disapproval of MESA is pure stupidity.

We are going to fly the EMB-190's for less money than our 737, 757, and A-320 pay rates. The pay that we will take to fly the 90 seaters is still more than what you make. Basically our management has said, in so many words, that the pay will be roughly equal to what JetBlue will fly theirs for. If we are willing to fly them for that amount of money we will get the EMB-190's. If not they will let one of the regionals fly them. And I assure you that you would fly them for even less.

2008 is a long way away? I would think that too if I was flying at Mesa.

We're so stupid that will strike in a couple years??? This will lead to more outsourcing?? Huh?? I have a hard time believing that you have any idea what you are talking about.

Don't kid yourself...nobody refers to us as "Big Mesa". I've never even heard that before. Now I have heard you referred to as "Mesa...leading the race to the bottom".

We screwed up the CRJ-900? Well, out of all your babble that is the only true statement. All the majors would love to go back in time and get back the 50-90 seat jets.

We did drop the ball on the 90 seaters...and now we're stuck with Mesa. But I assure you that we aren't going to screw the EMB-190's up.

One thing is for sure. When we get the 190's we will eventually be able to bring the rates up. You never would.

"Frankly, I've long believed that OUR low wages subsidize YOUR high wages . . ." Huh?? Pilots wages were high long before the regoinals and the RJ fad were around. As you get jets our wages drop.

"and the sad part is, yours aren't high anyway . . ." Yeah...no thanks to you. (This applies to any Mainline/Regional relationship).

As an FO at AWA I still make more than any of your captains and I'm sure that I have better schedules.

You're right about one other thing, though. It is cheaper to have Mesa pilots fly jets for 23k per year. Who would argue with that? The sad thing is you say it with pride...like its a good thing. I had always hoped to make the big money in the airlines. But that won't happen as long as kids like you are willing to fly 90 seat jets for 23k per year (or less).

If you want to turn this into a Mesa pilots vs. AWA pilots bring it on.

Do you have any other enlightening info for me??