Allow me to set the record straight

[SkyBoy1981]

Do you believe that there aren't kids coming out of ERAU or other aviation colleges with the same mentality that these DCI Academy or FSI kids have? Trust me, there are. I've had the misfortune of meeting a few. A person's desire to learn and mold into a knowledgeable, skilled aviator has nothing to do with a college education. Stereotyping an individual as being more intelligent, skilled, or competent simply because they spent 4 years partying at ERAU is rather absurd. There will be bad eggs in any group, no matter what their background or education.

 

[FrontierFan]

I absolutely agree. I am not going to say that there were not some real tools coming out of Purdue. My whole argument is a blast against the stereotype that degrees are worthless in this industry. Whether some one is interested in self improvement, increase their earning potential, or to just add to their pilot group’ average educational level finishing a degree is never a waste.

I never said that a degree is better than experience. I said that a more educated pilot is better than one who is not. I really can't believe that some would argue with this truth.

I also know that things come up during those years. On many occations I was offered a King Air or Turbo Commander trip on the same day I would have an exam. That is why I said that finishing my degree was much harder than any flight training I have been through. I am not insulting my ratings just calling a spade a spade.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I never said that a degree is better than experience. I said that a more educated pilot is better than one who is not.

This, my friend, is a stereotype in itself. You are putting all non college educated pilots into a "lower group" than those who have degrees. I'm a firm believer that stereotyping is wrong...in any shape or form. There are intelligent pilots, there are not so intelligent pilots. Did all of the intelligent pilots become so by going to college? Absolutely not. If you believe this, tell it to some of the many SWA Captains on this board that I have had the opportunity to chat with that have no college education. Do you feel that you are smarter or a better pilot than they are? If so..why aren't you in the left seat of the 737?

 

[FrontierFan]

OK….Lets try this again. You might want to re-read the post.



You see when one pursues an education by going to college they are not becoming more smartificated, they are not becoming more integicated, actually they are becoming more EDUCATED. That is why it is called higher education. It does not mean that someone becomes smarter or intelligent who chooses to finish a degree. It does mean that the person who chose to finish their degree is more Educated (by definition). I am sorry if this Webster’ definition is offensive to you because if you chose to pursue a BS compared to someone with a Masters, than the person with an MBA is in-fact more educated than you.



MmmmmKaaaayyyyy

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Irrelevant. Bottom line, " a more educated pilot is better than one who is not" simply isn't true. That is MY point. YOU said it yourself.

 

[CatYaaak]

If your premise is that not having a college degree (ie level of education) doesn't hamper your aviation career because all that matters is having the ability to fly, then it follows that graduating high school doesn't matter either.....or middle school. By middle school we have basic reading skills and can do simple arithmetic, which is all that is needed read manuals, figure performance, etc.

Silly me, if only I'd dropped out of high school and flown my brains out after getting my PPL in 11th grade, instead of wasting all that time finishing high school and going to college....I'd be so much further ahead now!

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Thats not my premise at all. As I said above, my disagreement with Frontier is simple...a pilot with a college education is not necessarily better than one without. Did I ever state that a college education doesn't benefit a person? Nope. Did I ever state that a pilot wouldn't be a better pilot had they received further education? Nope.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Frontier,

I did reread your post, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps your wording was misleading. If your point is that any GIVEN pilot would be a better pilot if they had a college education, you have no argument from me there. The way you worded your statement, however, leads one to believe that you are saying that a pilot that went to college is better than another pilot that didn't. That simply isn't always accurate..

 

[FrontierFan]

Here is my case in point. In the nineties many majors were using a point system to select their interview hopefuls. Categories included licenses/certificates, flight experience, military experience, and education. From my understanding one major would award one point for a BS and another for a Masters. If the applicant only had and Associates degree than that applicant was not awarded any educational points. If the applicant chose to finish his/her education after high school than that applicant had a point subtracted from his total score.

Now was this major “STEROTYPING”? I guess, if that airline made the observation that most possessing a degree from a higher learning institution was more educated than those with out. However if that is true than they were also “STEROTYPING” by the thought that many ex-military pilots possess experience that civilian pilots do not. But if that is true than maybe they should get rid of the ATP and time requirements? Isn’t that “STEROTYPING” the idea that Licenses and flight time has something to do with experience.

Maybe in the future to avoid all sorts of possible “STEROTYPES” we should banish all forms of standard. People should be hired via the lottery. That way it would be impossible to say “THAT’S NOT FAIR. JUST BECAUSE THAT PERSON DECIDED TO BETTER THEMSELVES BY _(fill in the blank college, military, type ratings etc…..) SHOULD NOT MEAN THAT THEY SHOULD GET HIRED BEFORE ME. THAT’S STREOTYPING!!!!!!”

I believe that in today’s world of political correctness it is still ok to have standards. Lots of other industries do and so does aviation. Here is the secret. That is why the airlines that pay better have different standards than regional carriers that pay much less while some of the equipment/routes between the regionals and majors are similar if not identical.



Weird huh?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I also never said that a person shouldn't receive credit for the extra education that they have received. If there are two equally qualified candidates, and one has more education...obviously the more educated one should get the job. No argument there. Once again, I'm simply stating that because a pilot may not have a college degree, it shouldn't put him in a stereotype of automatically being an idiot. As mentioned before, according to several internal sources I have talked to, Southwest Airlines has plenty of pilots without degrees. I even heard of one or more with a GED. What were they thinking by hiring such uneducated people? After all, its not like they are the only major airline making money right now, or that they have a nearly perfect safety record.

 

[FrontierFan]

I too have met many good pilots that chose not to attend/complete college. The ones that “made it” are clearly an exception to the rule. And using them as an example to tell younger pilots that if you want to fly professionally than college is a waste is equivalent to saying “GEE COLLIN POWELL CAME FROM THE HOOD SOOOOO AS A FOURTUNE 500 COMPANY WE SHOULD CANCEL THE JOB FAIRS AT THE BIG TEN SCHOOLS AND GO DO SOME STREET INTERVIEWS OUTSIDE OF THE PROJECTS INSTEAD.”



Taking an exception to the rule like Southwest pilots who chose not to go to college and making an overgeneralization like “you don’t need to go to college” is worse than stereotyping……..it’s stupid.



A truer sentence to a young person would read:

“GETTING A DEGREE IS NOT REQUIRED BUT IS CLOSE. THERE ARE A FEW WHO HAVE MADE IT TO THE LEVEL THAT MOST AIM FOR WITHOUT A DEGREE BUT THEY ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO COMPLETE AT LEAST A FOUR YEAR PROGRAM BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU A MORE WELL INFORMED PERSON, INCREACES YOU EARNING POTENTIAL BECAUSE YOU HAVE A MUCH BETTER CHANCE AT GETTING TO A MAJOR, AND MAKES YOU MORE WELL ROUNDED PERSON SHOULD YOU GET FURLOGHED OR LOOSE YOUR MEDICAL.

YOUNG PERSON, IF SOMEONE TIRES TO GIVE YOU ADVICE TO NOT GO TO COLLEGE THAN REMEMBER THESE TRUISMISMS AND TELL THEM TO STOP COMING UP WITH RIDICULUS EXCEPTIONS AND FALSE STREOTYPS TO JUSTIFY THEIR DECISION TO NOT GO ON TO FINISHING THEIR DEGREE.”

 

[SkyBoy1981]

My message to young people is similar to yours: Go to college, better your education, work hard, and please..learn how to spell better than FrontierFan! (sorry, I'm joking...couldn't resist). Your remarks just rubbed off as being rather insulting to myself and possibly others that have worked hard, but may have educated ourselves in other ways than going to college classes. I am in no way bashing someone for getting a degree. In none of my posts do I feel as though I gave that message. If I ever get time I would like to get a degree myself....but in the meantime I don't have one, and I don't feel like I should be looked down upon because of it.

 

[FrontierFan]

I can pick up what your layin down and I hope you will be able to find the time and money to finish things up. The sad thing is that there are others on that five page thread that actually are trying to justify their decision to not start/finish their degree because Bill Gates, the CEO of JetBlue, and a very small group of airline pilots made the same decision.



An interesting poll should be posted on the Major and Fractional page to see what they think. I am sure that the players of the minor league baseball team have a different opinion than the winners of the major league World Series.



Night.

 

[smellthejeta]

Hey,

I found this great job in aviation. It requires an AS degree at minimum (MUST have a degree) and has a strong potential to earn a six figure income by the individual's 30th birthday. Heck, the hiring forecast is fairly strong as well.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Hey,

I found this great job in aviation. It requires an AS degree at minimum (MUST have a degree) and has a strong potential to earn a six figure income by the individual's 30th birthday. Heck, the hiring forecast is fairly strong as well.

That would be Air Traffic Control. One occupation in which I have the utmost respect for. What those guys (and girls) can do up at ORD every day takes talent...not just skill or education.