Allegheny-Mohawk Merger

[Kharma Police]

I understand this will be the new employee blue print for future airline mergers or acquisitions. Could someone explain the pros vs. cons using this type of protocol?

 

[PCL_128]

My understanding of the bill is that Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs will only be applied if there aren't already contractual merger protections in place. In other words, if two ALPA carriers are merging, then ALPA merger policy is still used in lieu of ALG/Mohawk. The only time that ALG/Mohawk will be required is in the case of non-union airlines merging, or a case where union carriers without contractual merger protection are merging. At AAI, we already have contractual merger procedures, so ALG/Mohawk LPPs only come into play if we can't come to mutual agreement with management and the other carrier's pilots about how to merge on our own.

 

[radarlove]

so ALG/Mohawk LPPs only come into play if we can't come to mutual agreement with management and the other carrier's pilots about how to merge on our own.

Which will happen in 100% of the cases.

 

[PCL_128]

Which will happen in 100% of the cases.

Not really. I think many pilot groups will be cautious about arbitration after seeing how the AWA/AAA fiasco has gone down.

 

[FDJ2]

Not really. I think many pilot groups will be cautious about arbitration after seeing how the AWA/AAA fiasco has gone down.

Bingo!

 

[Deadalus]

Not really. I think many pilot groups will be cautious about arbitration after seeing how the AWA/AAA fiasco has gone down.

That would require both groups to be reasonable and not try and staple the other group. Highly unlikely when dealing with legacy arrogance. One can hope though.

 

[MCDU]

1/3 of USAIRS list got stapled. Guys with 17 years of straight service got stapled. They left out everyone flying the 170 at the time.

 

[TWA Dude]

Correction: all the furloughed East pilots were stapled. The rest were ratioed.

 

[Kharma Police]

Correction: all the furloughed East pilots were stapled. The rest were ratioed.

So, the arbitrators rationale was that the furloughed AAA pilots were not going to ever return to their jobs because UsAir was on the verge of liquidation? Hence the staple at the bottom of the combined lists?

 

[MCDU]

Many of those so called furloughed pilots had jobs flying the 170 at USAIR. The active list in 2005 went to the bottom. one of the reason for the lawsuit of which ALPA will be at fault of not representing all pilots at USAIR at the time. Just wait and see how big ALPO screwed up again. This is huge problem for ALPO, which once again did not fairly represent all of its pilots.

 

[Explosive]

Many of those so called furloughed pilots had jobs flying the 170 at USAIR. The active list in 2005 went to the bottom. one of the reason for the lawsuit of which ALPA will be at fault of not representing all pilots at USAIR at the time. Just wait and see how big ALPO screwed up again. This is huge problem for ALPO, which once again did not fairly represent all of its pilots.

That's funny, and here I thought it was a arbitrator who decided.

 

[Explosive]

1/3 of USAIRS list got stapled. Guys with 17 years of straight service got stapled. They left out everyone flying the 170 at the time.

While I agree that the 170 guys got screwed and there are other problems with the merged list, do you really think that a pilot who's pre-merged seniority could only hold "the street" (furlough) should have been placed above a pilot who's pre-merged seniority held PHX 737 FO?

The career expectations of a new hire are that pilots will be placed on the list beneath them, not above.

The career expectations of a furloughed pilot are that he will return to the list at or near the bottom, not leapfrog 1000's of others.

 

[stlflyguy]

one of the reason for the lawsuit of which ALPA will be at fault of not representing all pilots at USAIR at the time. Just wait and see how big ALPO screwed up again. This is huge problem for ALPO, which once again did not fairly represent all of its pilots.

Sorry...get in line behind those who are former TWA.

stlflyguy

 

[TWA Dude]

So, the arbitrators rationale was that the furloughed AAA pilots were not going to ever return to their jobs because UsAir was on the verge of liquidation? Hence the staple at the bottom of the combined lists?

Nicolau's thoughts can best be explained in his own words:

Of considerable importance is the question of career
expectations. As previously stated, America West argues that the
career expectations of the US Airways pilots were nil; that if the
airline was not a failing carrier saved from certain liquidation by its
purchase by America West, it was so close as to make little difference.
On the other hand, America West, in the view of its pilots, was robust
and on its way to sustained achievement. The US Airways pilots argue
that neither description fits the facts. In their view, US Airways,
though in bankruptcy for the second time, had lowered its costs and
secured additional investment capital ensuring its survival and
prospects of emerging from bankruptcy. Beyond this, as shown by
repeated post-merger statements by America West's CEO and by
expert analysis, that airline was also in poor financial condition.
Thus, both airlines needed each other and both have benefited from
the merger. The US Airways pilots assert that this, as well as cases it
cites as precedent, argue for the proposition that the financial picture of the two airlines was relatively the same and, as such, should not even be considered.
Our view is that neither picture is persuasive. The US Airways reliance on post-merger statements by America West's CEO, clearly made to assuage growing concerns of America West pilots who had seen a post-merger end to hiring, an increasing return of longfurloughed US Airways pilots and a flattening in their own advancement, 'is misplaced. Equally so is America West's insistence that US Airways was about to disappear. Yet, it cannot be disputed that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues.

People like MCDU think Nicolau was off base yet by reading his decision one can only conclude that the guy knew what he was doing and unlike anybody at USAirways or AWA he was neutral. If you'd like to read the entire abritration decision (only 139k Word file) just PM me.

 

[get2flyin]

1/3 of USAIRS list got stapled. Guys with 17 years of straight service got stapled. They left out everyone flying the 170 at the time.

Wait...do you mean the elite "Embraer Division"? STILL funny!!! (sigh) You guys are awesome.