ALL ATPS Multi-Engine Course

[tweetypie]

Yes I was prepared, due to the good instructor that I had but mainly due to learning the booklet before I went (engine out emergencies, the in-flight checklists and the set ups for the maneuvers)

My understanding before I went (quite wrongly) was that I would have 10 hours to prepare and take the checkride, when in fact it worked out to a little over half of that. Im not saying that is a bad thing (obviously as I passed) but if someone has the wrong expectation and isnt ready in those 5-6 hours prep, they would probably be asked for another $225 for every extra hour they need.

Had I been a little more rusty on the maneuvers I dont think atp would have allowed me to practice for 9 hours, with them swallowing the cost of the 2 hour trip to the examiner

As long as guys are aware of exactly what will take place, there is no problem. I just dont think atp make that clear when you sign up

 

[Tram]

I dunno how much more clear they could make it.. Right off the website is the first sentence you would read concerning the 10 hour program..

" ATP's multi-engine rating program adds multi-engine instrument privileges to your existing Private or Commercial Pilot Certificate. All necessary ground and flight instruction required by the Multi-Engine Practical Test Standards is included. This 4 day course provides up to 8.5 hours of flight training and the use of the aircraft for the checkride."

 

[tweetypie]

What part of that paragraph states that 2 hours of that time will be absorbed into flying to the checkride ? And I tranined for 5.2 hours and not 8.5. I can assure that I would felt much more comfortable in taking the flight test with 3 more hours under my belt

 

[Tram]

Ok, I can't really say what other instructors do, or what they have done..

I try and fly my guys 8.5 every time and send them to the check ride.. I give them 8.5 training, they get 1.5 to the checkride and then the checkride and then the ride home..

I guess I'm sorry you were ready in under 8.5 and passed?? I don't really understand what your trying to get at..

It seemed like you said "I just dont think atp make that clear when you sign up" which made it sound like you thought it wasn't clear that you weren't getting 10 hours of training when you showed up.. So I quoted the website where it states you will get UP TO 8.5..

Up to.. that means.. if you are ready, for a checkride in 5 hours, that's when you go.. if your not ready in 5, you keep going until your ready.. and then you go..

 

[Hipster Loser]

I hope I'll be ready in less hours rather than more.

Tram,

What do most people fail on the checkride from what you've seen. What do they usually have difficulty performing.

In terms of the oral questions, there are a few questions I need some clarification on.

E. What is the function of the nitrogen cylinder?
Assists in feathering the prop.

F. What is the purpose of the spring in the prop dome? Drives prop to High Pitch / Low RPM

Not sure if my answers are correct provided the limited info. in the booklet. It seems the booklet does not provide concrete answers to this. Don't they both concurrently do the same thing, yet they are separate questions. I would imagine that the spring works with the nitrogen-charged cylinder to feather the prop together.
Could you provide a more acceptable answer.


Also, there is no specific answer to this question in the booklet:

What indicates that the gear is in transit and the hydraulic pump is activated?



Here's another:

How do you prevent a heater overheat?
To prevent activation of the overheat switch upon normal heater shutdown during ground operation, turn the three-position switch to “FAN” for two minutes with the “AIR INTAKE” lever in the open position before turning the switch off.

During flight, leave the air intake open for a minimum of 15 seconds after turning the switch to off.

Is this the answer they are looking for? It doesn't seme like the booklet addresses prevention of an actual overheat, unless Im reading it incorrectly. It just tells how to prevent a self-induced one from shutdown. Not just how to preventone from occuring on its own.


Thanks for any clarification.

 

[aucfi]

for the prop

A combination of nitrogen or air pressure, a spring, blade counterweights and governor-regulated oil pressure is utilized to change the pitch of the propeller blades.

The nitrogen charge, spring, and counterweights are all acting to "feather" the propeller while your governor forces pressurized oil into the prop hub assembly to decrease blade angle and increase engine/prop RPM.

ex.
As the propeller lever is pushed forward, increasing the propeller RPM, a valve in the governor allows increased oil pressure to enter the propeller hub and move the blades to the low pitch (increased RPM) position.

Basically the oil pressure from the governor is counteracting the spring/nitrogen & counterweights.

for the gear

If my memory serves correct, the gear system on the Seminole is the same as the Piper Arrow. Anytime the gear is in transit, you will have a red gear unsafe light. You can verify the hydraulic pump's operation by sight, sound, and feel. You can see/feel the plane pitch when the gear is in transit and also hear it sometime. Also watch the ammeter gague when you raise or lower the gear. Should see a significant jump in amerage being put through the system. The unsafe light will also sound when the gear is not down and locked with the selector in the down position (really?) and when you have the flaps in the approach position without the gear down. Might be some others but I cant remember for the seminole. MP below ___ inches of Hg....?

best of luck

au

 

[tweetypie]

The point is, that no one ever feels ready for a checkride so the more you fly the more confidence you have when taking the test. In my case, it was never discussed, the instructor simply booked the ride before he had even had the chance to see what my skills were like. I was passable at 5.2 hours but certainly not competent. The traning for the instrument approach wasnt done until we reached the examiners airport ! What would happened if I had made real mess of that practice approach ?

I had paid for the 10 hours total, so I should have recieved them. I certainly wasnt asking for anything more than that.


$2200 is a 10 hour course, anything flown less than that is just greater profit for the school.

 

[Hipster Loser]

Maybe I should feign poor skills until I've gotten closer to my 10 hours. This all depends on how quickly I think I'll get through. I'm not kidding either. Multi is precious.imp:

 

[jaxpilot]

i did 8.5 training and my checkride was 1.3, passed first time. Most economical and efficient multi course and it was only 30 minutes from my house so I feel it was worth it.

 

[Hipster Loser]

Yeah, the prgroam seems to be good one. I like all of the standardization in callouts and profiles they use. It helps a lot to have the booklet which prepares you so you know what to expect and how to perform everything.

When I'm done, I will continue to use these procedures as guidlines for my instrument flying.

 

[tweetypie]

Atp's procedures are first rate and they are good example to all flight schools in that respect.

 

[Tram]

Hipster - As far as what do most people bust on? Hmm.. let's see.. I'll tell you they bust on all sorts of things.. I've had like 4 or 5 busts.. One went the wrong way in a hold, one got with the examiner and thought he was flying a 172 - and fouled up his short fields, another guy put the gear down during a VMC demo, one got all twisted up in an ILS and went full scale deflection.. It varies..

Aucfi pretty much sumed it up as far as your direct questions...

The nitrogen charged cylinder is just that, a cylinder filled with nitrogen that will assist in moving the prop into feather.. The spring essentially does the same thing.. The prop hub fills with oil, which compresses the spring at full rpm, when the prop needs to come back to low rpm oil pressure is reduced and the spring/nitro cylinder help bring the prop back.. Just think of the prop control lever as a oil valve.. all the way up - adds oil.. all the way back pulls oil.. sorta like a push-pull type setup..

Gear in transit is indicated by a "gear unsafe light" also, you can hear and feel the gear pump going.. You can also look at something as simple as the gear mirror on the nacelle.. now you see the gear.. now you don't type thing.

Heater overheat is as you described, don't sweat the heater too much..

Tweety - I understand what your saying, but in the description of the program it states "up to" which is a qualifying term.. It means, you could get up to or you could get less.. I try and most of the instructors I know try to get it done in 8.5, as that is 8.5 in our log book too..

Chances are, your instructor will be Jeffrey Grover, unless they have added someone else, not sure.. He's a good guy.

 

[BLing]

Be able to memorize pages 1-16 in the supplement they send you. Study the gouge they give you and you will be fine. I know that sounds bad, but you actually learn everything about multiengine flying in this whole process.

Also, you will not get 10 hrs, I dont even think I got 8 which included the checkride and the 1 hr flight back from it. If you suck, you may have to go over 10 hrs and you will have to pay extra!

 

[Vik]

I did the multi program out of Riverside (RAL). I got what I paid for .. a multi ticket in "upto 10 hrs"

Couldn't be happier. Learn to read if you're having trouble figuring out why you didn't get to log all 10 hours.