El Chupacabra
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Let me get this straight.
QS sales calls me and asks if I have an aircraft available to cover leg(s) for their customers while the Flt Dep is in a labor dispute and my pilots stepping on to greater things later in life will be black listed?
From What?!?
Seems I am doing you a favor. You ought to be glad I am out here charging your management an arm and a leg simply because I can, based upon what I know what QS customers are being charged. If I am out here cutting into their profit, they would be drawn to the table and closer to your demands.
You are welcome, BTW.
100-1/2
confuscious say: Man who rub wood too much, he uh get, uh splinter!
QS sales calls me and asks if I have an aircraft available to cover leg(s) for their customers while the Flt Dep is in a labor dispute and my pilots stepping on to greater things later in life will be black listed?
From What?!?
Seems I am doing you a favor. You ought to be glad I am out here charging your management an arm and a leg simply because I can, based upon what I know what QS customers are being charged. If I am out here cutting into their profit, they would be drawn to the table and closer to your demands.
You are welcome, BTW.
100-1/2
confuscious say: Man who rub wood too much, he uh get, uh splinter!
Last edited:
El Chupacabra
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
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No I don't think you have it straght. Read my posts above.
But I also would say you are not doing us a favor by cutting into profits. They have lots of money... enough to outlast me... as long as they can cover the trips. "We've got more money than brains" was recently said. And a few years ago when asked about competition, "we've had dumb competitors in the past and they bleed. we've got more blood than they have."
But I also would say you are not doing us a favor by cutting into profits. They have lots of money... enough to outlast me... as long as they can cover the trips. "We've got more money than brains" was recently said. And a few years ago when asked about competition, "we've had dumb competitors in the past and they bleed. we've got more blood than they have."
Kingairrick
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- 886
El Chup:El Chupacabra said:
It started as a ridiculous rumor. Then got confirmed as the official local 1108 position by "Netjetwife" in her post #275 on the other thread. She confirms it again in post #351. Someone needs to muzzle that freak.
"bluepost" alson confirms it as an official 1108 position in his post #355.
"Starman" says a great many things, confirming it as factsveral times, then stating that ALPA will recognize the list in post #403.
I hope that you are correct, and that they are wrong.
yosemite
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Struck Work
Gentlemen, and Ladies...
I am a NetJets pilot. I say this because I want you to know it from the beginning.
But before I became a pilot for NJA, I was a charter pilot and I flew a lot of Part 125 and 135 work. I've flown the 172 in charter, different Lear's, the Golden Eagle and the Hawkasarous. I've spent many a night moving checks and staring at midwestern thunderstorms from behind the panel of a faithful old 310. I've marveled at the old Sabre 60 and sat bored in a CJ and Beechjet. I know what it's like to hide from the phone call, to sit all day in an FBO, and to wish the beeper would go to hell. I've had months go by where I didn't get paid for a single day of work, and I've spent months on the road at a time flying rock and roll bands around in old converted airliners. I've been asked to fly illegally many times, and have been threatened with losing my job if I didn't go do the flight. So, I guess what I'm saying is that after 15 years of doing it, I'm not a stranger to your world.
I see the question asked a lot about why, considering the low pay, I don't just leave the job; or why, considering the low pay, did I take the job in the first place? The only reason I personally have is because (a) it WAS a job in avaition in the period shortly after 9/11, (b) it offered stability, as in a regular paycheck (not contract work), benefits, and a schedule. I knew the pay was low, but we were all promised it would increase greatly real soon and I figured I could put up with it for a while.
But that "while" is over. Just because the job pays poorly doesn't mean it should, nor does it mean a person shouldn't do what they can to make it pay better. In the non-unionized world we all know it meant negotiating with the manager/owner to try and get a pay raise. For us, it means a new contract. I suppose the easy thing to do is take everyone's suggestion and leave for another job... but I _like_ this one. And I want to make it better, not only for myself and my union brothers, but for the rest of the industry as well. As such, if asked to walk a picket line I will stand up and do my duty.
And so, let me get to the point. I am one of the union volunteers and I serve as a committee chairman. While I do not speak for our union leadership, I do have knowledge of what goes on and I want to address this "scab" issue.
There was a post by someone on the other forum about what might happen if the NetJets Pilot's Union does go on strike. What all of you need to understand is that it was just that, a post by an individual. For now, the "official" position has not been totally defined, but I can tell you this. The union leadership felt that someone flying a QS tail, or someone flying a NetJets trip from one of our sister companies that fall under the "single carrier" scope issue (NJI, EJM) would be considered as flying "struck work". But that was all... or at least we thought it was.
We have been undertaking the process of removing our membership from the truck drivers local it was in, and creating a local of pilots working for pilots. Creating a local is a large task for any group; doing it while in the midst of heated contract negotiations is even more daunting. And to add to our pleasure, we have been contacted by a significant enough number of the Flight Options pilots asking for our help in organizing that we cannot ignore their request. And with every step we take in this process, we are learning something new; names, policies, politics, and even the "struck work" issue.
We have received information and guidance from the national level which may be re-defining the issue of "struck work". Because the Shared Aircraft business has never seen a strike, the issue of what exactly is "struck work" is poorly defined; a problem that is being looked at by all of the different aviation union bodies as we speak. However, irrespective of what has been posted by others in this, and the fractional, forum all of you should understand that the major aviation unions have pledged to support our cause and decisions.
I think every one of us understands that regardless of whether the NetJets Pilot's Union wins or loses in this battle for a fair and just contract, the outcome will have a significant effect on the industry as a whole. We are all pilots and it is not our desire to see others harmed as a result of our actions. We are only asking that you try to understand some of the issues we face in this uphill battle, and at least not help to make the hill steeper for us.
It is my hope and desire to see everyone stop and take a deep breath before going on with this issue. Like I give to my fellow union brothers and sisters, the best advice I can give is to just wait and see what happens.
Respectfully submitted.
Gentlemen, and Ladies...
I am a NetJets pilot. I say this because I want you to know it from the beginning.
But before I became a pilot for NJA, I was a charter pilot and I flew a lot of Part 125 and 135 work. I've flown the 172 in charter, different Lear's, the Golden Eagle and the Hawkasarous. I've spent many a night moving checks and staring at midwestern thunderstorms from behind the panel of a faithful old 310. I've marveled at the old Sabre 60 and sat bored in a CJ and Beechjet. I know what it's like to hide from the phone call, to sit all day in an FBO, and to wish the beeper would go to hell. I've had months go by where I didn't get paid for a single day of work, and I've spent months on the road at a time flying rock and roll bands around in old converted airliners. I've been asked to fly illegally many times, and have been threatened with losing my job if I didn't go do the flight. So, I guess what I'm saying is that after 15 years of doing it, I'm not a stranger to your world.
I see the question asked a lot about why, considering the low pay, I don't just leave the job; or why, considering the low pay, did I take the job in the first place? The only reason I personally have is because (a) it WAS a job in avaition in the period shortly after 9/11, (b) it offered stability, as in a regular paycheck (not contract work), benefits, and a schedule. I knew the pay was low, but we were all promised it would increase greatly real soon and I figured I could put up with it for a while.
But that "while" is over. Just because the job pays poorly doesn't mean it should, nor does it mean a person shouldn't do what they can to make it pay better. In the non-unionized world we all know it meant negotiating with the manager/owner to try and get a pay raise. For us, it means a new contract. I suppose the easy thing to do is take everyone's suggestion and leave for another job... but I _like_ this one. And I want to make it better, not only for myself and my union brothers, but for the rest of the industry as well. As such, if asked to walk a picket line I will stand up and do my duty.
And so, let me get to the point. I am one of the union volunteers and I serve as a committee chairman. While I do not speak for our union leadership, I do have knowledge of what goes on and I want to address this "scab" issue.
There was a post by someone on the other forum about what might happen if the NetJets Pilot's Union does go on strike. What all of you need to understand is that it was just that, a post by an individual. For now, the "official" position has not been totally defined, but I can tell you this. The union leadership felt that someone flying a QS tail, or someone flying a NetJets trip from one of our sister companies that fall under the "single carrier" scope issue (NJI, EJM) would be considered as flying "struck work". But that was all... or at least we thought it was.
We have been undertaking the process of removing our membership from the truck drivers local it was in, and creating a local of pilots working for pilots. Creating a local is a large task for any group; doing it while in the midst of heated contract negotiations is even more daunting. And to add to our pleasure, we have been contacted by a significant enough number of the Flight Options pilots asking for our help in organizing that we cannot ignore their request. And with every step we take in this process, we are learning something new; names, policies, politics, and even the "struck work" issue.
We have received information and guidance from the national level which may be re-defining the issue of "struck work". Because the Shared Aircraft business has never seen a strike, the issue of what exactly is "struck work" is poorly defined; a problem that is being looked at by all of the different aviation union bodies as we speak. However, irrespective of what has been posted by others in this, and the fractional, forum all of you should understand that the major aviation unions have pledged to support our cause and decisions.
I think every one of us understands that regardless of whether the NetJets Pilot's Union wins or loses in this battle for a fair and just contract, the outcome will have a significant effect on the industry as a whole. We are all pilots and it is not our desire to see others harmed as a result of our actions. We are only asking that you try to understand some of the issues we face in this uphill battle, and at least not help to make the hill steeper for us.
It is my hope and desire to see everyone stop and take a deep breath before going on with this issue. Like I give to my fellow union brothers and sisters, the best advice I can give is to just wait and see what happens.
Respectfully submitted.
TimsKeeper
Registered Abuser
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2003
- Posts
- 290
yosemite,
You wasted a lot of space saying nothing. If your position is, since you seemed vague enough to protect yourself from all angles, that only current nutjet employees that may strike could become scabs if they fly a trip or newbies in QS airplanes I can understand and support that as an outsider.
If you in anyway mean, hint, feel or desire someone like myself, a 135 pilot that does a lot of nutjet sell-offs should refuse to do a trip ( and subsequently lose my job) because you are being forced to fight for what you want you are not being fair and quite selfish.
Yes, I feel you deserve much more that you have. I hope you get it. If you don't you can always QUIT your job and probably make double elsewhere.
Sorry for this opinion, but I don't think I am alone.
You wasted a lot of space saying nothing. If your position is, since you seemed vague enough to protect yourself from all angles, that only current nutjet employees that may strike could become scabs if they fly a trip or newbies in QS airplanes I can understand and support that as an outsider.
If you in anyway mean, hint, feel or desire someone like myself, a 135 pilot that does a lot of nutjet sell-offs should refuse to do a trip ( and subsequently lose my job) because you are being forced to fight for what you want you are not being fair and quite selfish.
Yes, I feel you deserve much more that you have. I hope you get it. If you don't you can always QUIT your job and probably make double elsewhere.
Sorry for this opinion, but I don't think I am alone.
El Chupacabra
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
- Posts
- 527
Tims,
If you fly my trip you are flying struck work. However I quoted what the union sent to me about it... and what they said about scabs... and the select few.
I am not happy about struck work being flown... but read what I directly quoted from what the union sent me in writing.
Also people who are threatening other pilots are doing exactly what the union has asked them NOT TO DO. They should shut up now.
If you fly my trip you are flying struck work. However I quoted what the union sent to me about it... and what they said about scabs... and the select few.
I am not happy about struck work being flown... but read what I directly quoted from what the union sent me in writing.
Also people who are threatening other pilots are doing exactly what the union has asked them NOT TO DO. They should shut up now.
TimsKeeper
Registered Abuser
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2003
- Posts
- 290
You can call it what ever you want, put me on your list now if you so choose.
You are doing this to yourself, I have nothing to do with your issues. If I wanted to get paid the starting wages NJ offers I would apply and picket with you. When I do a vendor trip for NetJets I am not supporting one side or another....I am doing my job. Also, the "few" in your group making the derogatory comments speak for you (ElChalup) as much as you are speaking for them, whether you thnk so or not. Denying that fact doesn't make it so.
If you were to go on strike, do you think the company would be able to coax enough individuals to fly QS tails? I know that is a very speculative question that might not be able to solicite an objective opinion. Regardless of your "scab" list ( it doesn't mean much to me), I wouldn't do it and wouldn't think most other pilots would either.
T-crest out! <---- that's gay!
You are doing this to yourself, I have nothing to do with your issues. If I wanted to get paid the starting wages NJ offers I would apply and picket with you. When I do a vendor trip for NetJets I am not supporting one side or another....I am doing my job. Also, the "few" in your group making the derogatory comments speak for you (ElChalup) as much as you are speaking for them, whether you thnk so or not. Denying that fact doesn't make it so.
If you were to go on strike, do you think the company would be able to coax enough individuals to fly QS tails? I know that is a very speculative question that might not be able to solicite an objective opinion. Regardless of your "scab" list ( it doesn't mean much to me), I wouldn't do it and wouldn't think most other pilots would either.
T-crest out! <---- that's gay!
gern_blanston
Airport Bum
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2005
- Posts
- 345
You are right on the money, Timskeeper.
Chup? Yosemite? You've gotta' remember that the company can be run however management wants. Have you ever run a business? The company owes you nothing... Not a job, not anything over minimum wage, not a retirement plan, not MLK Day off, nothing. It's their choice how to treat their employees, and it's your choice whether to work there, strike there, or run screaming into the street.
If you work for a good organization, they take good care of you. If you don't, you get the shaft. I can't figger out why people can't figger that out.
If going on strike gets you another $30,000 a year, I guess that's great, but in the current economic climate, a lot of folks with jobs have decided to hunker down and see what happens.
[Up on the soapbox for a rant]
But I am certainly not gonna' tell the company I do contract charter work for to stuff it if they call me to take a trip. My job description as father/husband clearly states that I need to take care of my family. That's what it's all about for me. I must do this, not some union, my 'pilot brothers', the companies I work for, or 'the state' (nod to my communist friends.) Getting fired from my part-time job by refusing to take trips this summer would get me called before the review board at the home office, if you know what I mean, because it would take a bite out of the budget at my very old-fashioned, nuclear, mom-stays-at-home-with-the-kids household.
I quit a couple of jobs to get where I'm at. I was searching and saw opportunity. In fact, I'm still searching. A smart pilot always is. It seems to me (and many other non-union, non-frax pilots) that some of the frax pilots that I bump into on the road might have better spent their excess energy over the last 2 years looking for a different job rather than b!tch!ng about the one that they currently hate.
[/Off of soapbox, end of rant]
Chup? Yosemite? You've gotta' remember that the company can be run however management wants. Have you ever run a business? The company owes you nothing... Not a job, not anything over minimum wage, not a retirement plan, not MLK Day off, nothing. It's their choice how to treat their employees, and it's your choice whether to work there, strike there, or run screaming into the street.
If you work for a good organization, they take good care of you. If you don't, you get the shaft. I can't figger out why people can't figger that out.
If going on strike gets you another $30,000 a year, I guess that's great, but in the current economic climate, a lot of folks with jobs have decided to hunker down and see what happens.
[Up on the soapbox for a rant]
But I am certainly not gonna' tell the company I do contract charter work for to stuff it if they call me to take a trip. My job description as father/husband clearly states that I need to take care of my family. That's what it's all about for me. I must do this, not some union, my 'pilot brothers', the companies I work for, or 'the state' (nod to my communist friends.) Getting fired from my part-time job by refusing to take trips this summer would get me called before the review board at the home office, if you know what I mean, because it would take a bite out of the budget at my very old-fashioned, nuclear, mom-stays-at-home-with-the-kids household.
I quit a couple of jobs to get where I'm at. I was searching and saw opportunity. In fact, I'm still searching. A smart pilot always is. It seems to me (and many other non-union, non-frax pilots) that some of the frax pilots that I bump into on the road might have better spent their excess energy over the last 2 years looking for a different job rather than b!tch!ng about the one that they currently hate.
[/Off of soapbox, end of rant]
TimsKeeper
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