Alaska TA is out. Pay Rates.

[Mamma]

We would have been brought back to work and given back pay.

Would never happen. The union got legal guidance that the LOAs and RBBP were a form of mitigation and it was a losing grievance. Not worth throwing the whole deal away over this case. In regards to the furlough time line, that would go nowhere too.

 

[Mamma]

Dude,
Our MEC is made up of great guys that would do just about anything for us. Many airlines do not have it good in regards to the quality of MEC like we do. When Bill Shivers puts his stamp on something I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. This contract is like drinking a glass of marginal wine....unremarkable. But that is what I expected. We are one of the first out the gate with nothing much to build on. We made some gains and the other airlines in negotiations will be able to build on us a little. So, when our time comes up again down the road, maybe we will have something better to leverage ourself against and get better gains. What kind of leverage do you think we have here in regards to this contract? Look around, nobody is getting raises or improvements in this economy. We will have zero public support. Bill Ayers would love nothing more than for us to be parked for another year or two.
The mediator saw that the company came close to what we wanted so there was movement. There will be no release for strike. So we would be parked for another year or two and for what? Think time value of money. The TA has a bunch of things I don't like but overall it is progress and we are going to have to try to build on it further down the road. This contract is costing the company $60 million the first year and about $40 million per year after and puts us at #2 in pay. In regards to furloughs, if they continue, then they continue. It is the nature of the business and there is nothing the union can really do to force the company to retain folks. Unfortunately for me, I will be next if another round comes.

By now, I hope all of you have read the TA inside and out. Most of us have already made up our minds and there are others who are on the fence. If you are waiting for the road shows to sway you even though deep down inside you know what is right, well... I hope you are not called to make any life pending decisions any time soon(ie. flying airplanes).
Some of whom I spoke with who are voting for this TA sing the same tune - "the worst recession since the great depression", "NMB is going to park us for a very long time", "if the NC/MEC says so, it's gotta be a good deal", "this is the best we can do", "this is more than what I make now", just to name a few.
Besides the face slapping pay raise (especially 1.5, 1.5, 1.8) and the chump change signing bonus, we really need to focus our attention on the scheduling section. If you are a junior captain or FO, it would behoove you to fully understand the dire consequences of voting this TA in. If indeed the economy is going to tank even further or remain as is (as many of you "yes" voters fear), not only will there be stagnation in seniorty, but there will be further downgrades and furloughs to come. And we all know how our own brothers like to take real good care of our furloughed bros. Also, look at the reserve section carefully as we'll all be on reserve alot longer.
On the subject of the $13k signing bonus that MOST, not all, will pocket.... Just on this subject alone, we cannot accept this TA, IMO. This will set a bad precedence for future negotiations. Why? Becasue we just told the company that we'll bend over until they feel like kissing us. It gives them no incentive to negotiate in good faith and they know they will get away with it once again. I personally don't care what they call this pay, but it has to be exteremely close to the actual retro pay, and there has to be language to include the furloughed pilots if/when they return. On another note of pay, the union admitted to screwing up our pay rate proposal to the company; they admitted that we came in too low. The Union proposed pay rates in the December 2008 Comprehensive Proposal was a MISTAKE!!! For confirmation, please be sure to ask this question at the road shows. How in the h*ll we can make such a mistake is beyond me.
In closing, just ask yourselves this. Why is the union trying so hard to convince us that this TA is suuuuuch a good deal? Pressure from national, perhaps? The increased dues would be a nice to add to their account. By being the first one out the gate, we would be a stepping stone for others to improve on. Our NC might have gotten all they can this time, but there is more on the table. The FA just signed up for a 1.5% per year for the next 2 years. That leaves us with more money to take. If the company does not settle, they have more to lose. Just think why the company wants stability within the labor groups. There are many theories, but you can imagine that on your own. Sure, if the TA is turned down, there is the unknown. I'm willing to call their bluff. It's your call and it's your career. If you consider this a CAREER, think twice before you vote for this TURD. May God help us all.

 

[Going2Baja]

Wow a yes vote without thoroughly reading the workrules, scope, and fine print? Surely you are not that foolish??

Huh???? I said I would wait for the road show AND the full language to make up my mind. I re-read the summary and it still looks good. But ALL of the concerns posted here by fellow pilots are valid and each one of us has to make up our own find for our own reasons.

So ease up bro & read before you post!

Baja.

 

[Mookie]

Huh???? I said I would wait for the road show AND the full language to make up my mind. I re-read the summary and it still looks good. But ALL of the concerns posted here by fellow pilots are valid and each one of us has to make up our own find for our own reasons.

So ease up bro & read before you post!

Baja.

seriously, weren't you the guy calling BS a ******************************bag a few weeks ago before the ta was even out??? I guess now that you got what you want (back to lax) you are all hunky dory...that's pretty funny...

Mookie

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Would never happen. The union got legal guidance that the LOAs and RBBP were a form of mitigation and it was a losing grievance. Not worth throwing the whole deal away over this case. In regards to the furlough time line, that would go nowhere too.

Interesting. What exactly do you think would be thrown away?

 

[Mamma]

Interesting. What exactly do you think would be thrown away?

If the TA is voted down because we feel the furlough grievances have not been addressed, then that is what would be thrown away. The union has been advised that the furlough grievances are not likely to be successful. Sometimes we have to manage our expectations.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Dude,
Our MEC is made up of great guys that would do just about anything for us. Many airlines do not have it good in regards to the quality of MEC like we do. When Bill Shivers puts his stamp on something I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. This contract is like drinking a glass of marginal wine....unremarkable. But that is what I expected. We are one of the first out the gate with nothing much to build on. We made some gains and the other airlines in negotiations will be able to build on us a little. So, when our time comes up again down the road, maybe we will have something better to leverage ourself against and get better gains. What kind of leverage do you think we have here in regards to this contract? Look around, nobody is getting raises or improvements in this economy. We will have zero public support. Bill Ayers would love nothing more than for us to be parked for another year or two.
The mediator saw that the company came close to what we wanted so there was movement. There will be no release for strike. So we would be parked for another year or two and for what? Think time value of money. The TA has a bunch of things I don't like but overall it is progress and we are going to have to try to build on it further down the road. This contract is costing the company $60 million the first year and about $40 million per year after and puts us at #2 in pay. In regards to furloughs, if they continue, then they continue. It is the nature of the business and there is nothing the union can really do to force the company to retain folks. Unfortunately for me, I will be next if another round comes.

Dude,
Our MEC guys are good dudes, no doubt about it! But even good guys make mistakes. Our own pilots negotiating for us is no match against the well paid, well trained professional negotiators. When was the last time we won anything significant? The -900 pay? I hardly call that a big success. We left alot of money at the table on that one too. Did you ask yourself why our MEC is trying soooooo hard to sell this thing? If it's such a great deal for all of us, the TA would sell itself? Don't let the fear of the economy and the rumors of the mediator parking us become reality. In the end, it's just business and money.

 

[Mamma]

I hope to see you at the roadshow. I think you will be satisfied when you hear how things went down.

Dude,
Our MEC guys are good dudes, no doubt about it! But even good guys make mistakes. I don't think they are making a mistake. They know the game and they know our leverage and odds. Our own pilots negotiating for us is no match against the well paid, well trained professional negotiators. Yes they are but the odds are usually against us. The company holds most of the cards and has a lot more options than we do. What kind of leverage do you think we have? Do you think we will prevail in a full out strike? I highly doubt it. When everyone else in the world is taking cuts and losing jobs, our reputation as overpaid primadonas will be cemented. Self help also means the company can impose wages and concessions. We could lose BIG time! When was the last time we won anything significant? The -900 pay? I hardly call that a big success. Our last pay rates prior to Kasher were significant. We left alot of money at the table on that one too. Did you ask yourself why our MEC is trying soooooo hard to sell this thing? If it's such a great deal for all of us, the TA would sell itself? The TA is a reflection of reality. The TA is the best we are going to get in regards to the leverage we have. The company came pretty close to offering us what the negotiators asked for. It is not rumor of the mediator parking us either. Why would he release us for self-help when we are as close as we are? Tilden went as far as he could (remember who he works for) and our negotiators and MEC recognized it. They are not dumb people and they did not make a mistake. This is reality. You are looking at another year or two of Kasher wages if we vote this thing down and there are no guarantees we will get much more after that. So, you suggest we hold out for something better when it probably won't ever come. I don't like this TA too much but I see it as a first step. Unfortunately I will probably be furloughed as a result of it and it will take around 6 years if history serves right to get an improved one. Don't let the fear of the economy and the rumors of the mediator parking us become reality. Look around, it is reality. In the end, it's just business and money. In the end, the company is coughing up $60 million the first year for this TA and $40 million per year after. This is big money in today's environment and I am suprised they went this far considering their past.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

If the TA is voted down because we feel the furlough grievances have not been addressed, then that is what would be thrown away. The union has been advised that the furlough grievances are not likely to be successful. Sometimes we have to manage our expectations.

Isn't that part of the reason why Shivers wanted the grievance left separate from the TA?

 

[Mamma]

Isn't that part of the reason why Shivers wanted the grievance left separate from the TA?

No sense discussing this in an FI forum. Just go to the roadshow on Wednesday and your questions will be answered.