Conflicting accounts in firefighter's gun case
FBI agent's notes, typed report differ
By Kevin Vaughan, Rocky Mountain News
March 16, 2006
An FBI agent's handwritten notes, taken during an hourlong interview with a Denver firefighter facing machine gun charges, vary from his typewritten report detailing the same conversation, according to testimony in federal court Wednesday.
The notes also do not contain several direct quotations attributed to firefighter Stan Ford in the official report, which is dated a week after the interrogation. At the same time, some issues raised in the notes were not included in the official report.
In one instance, the notes quote Ford as saying he liked to "buy and sell guns legally" - but the word "legally" was dropped from the quote when it appeared in the official report.
Ford's attorney, Will Hood, took issue with the discrepancies during a hearing before U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn. Hood is seeking to have the statements attributed to the firefighter thrown out on the grounds that they weren't voluntary.
Blackburn did not immediately rule on the motion, indicating that he could make a decision today.
Ford, 35, who is accused of selling illegal machine guns to an undercover operative on three occasions, was arrested Nov. 22 as he left his southwest Denver home.
He also is charged with possession of a gun with an obliterated serial number - one of more than 70 weapons found in his home when it was searched after his arrest.
His case made headlines, in large part because of an unattributed statement in the arrest affidavit that Ford had been "described as a Denver firefighter who holds anti-U.S. sympathies and has ties to an unknown domestic terrorist organization."
Ford, through his attorney, has denied that allegation.
At issue in Wednesday's hearing were three pages of handwritten notes by FBI Special Agent W. Brian Schmitt, drafted during his interview of Ford early in the morning of Nov. 22, and his typed "302" report, which is slightly more than three pages long and dated Nov. 29.
Schmitt, under questioning from Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Mackey, testified that in the hours after his arrest, Ford did not appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol, was not pressured or coerced in any way and voluntarily agreed to speak with investigators.
Ford signed a waiver acknowledging that he understood his rights before he was questioned in an interview room at the FBI office downtown.
"There was no pressure exerted," Schmitt testified. "I gave him every chance to ask for counsel or opt out of talking. He chose to talk."
Schmitt said several times that the discussion was "laid-back" and that Ford was cooperative throughout the exchange.
Before Hood questioned Schmitt, Blackburn gave him access to the agent's notes of the interview and to the transcript of his grand jury testimony.
After a recess called to retrieve the grand jury documents, Hood asked a number of questions.
He established, for example, that Schmitt did not record the interview with Ford. When Schmitt said it was FBI policy not to record interviews with suspects, Hood asked him why.
"I'm not in the position to say," Schmitt responded.
Asked by Hood what that meant, Schmitt answered: "I don't make the rules. I just go by them."
Then Hood turned to a comparison of the notes and the 302 report.
Hood pointed to a quotation at the bottom of page 2 of the 302 that was attributed to Ford: "I knew it was wrong, but I sold the guns anyway."
When he asked Schmitt to find a reference to that statement in his notes, the agent acknowledged "it's not in the notes."
Ford is accused of selling three different kinds of machine guns. Hood highlighted a statement in Schmitt's notes that refers to one of the guns: "has only shot AR-15 Olympic Arms."
In the 302, however, Schmitt wrote, in reference to the AR-15, "Ford also stated that he had shot that exact weapon on many occasions, fully automatic."
The notes do not contain a reference to the number of times Ford shot the gun and don't detail whether it was semiautomatic or fully automatic. That distinction is important under the law because semiautomatic is legal but fully automatic is not.
Hood also pointed to a statement in Schmidt's notes that "people know Stan Ford is a straight shooter and he turns away people who want to buy off-paper."
Schmitt agreed with Hood's assertion that "off-paper" is a euphemism for buying a gun illegally.
"You put that in your notes," Hood then said to Schmitt. "Tell me where you find that in the 302 (report)."
"I don't see it," Schmitt said.
Wednesday's testimony also shed new light on Ford's dealings with the undercover FBI operative involved in the investigation.
Schmitt testified that he learned after Ford's arrest that on the day of his last sale to the operative - Nov. 21 - the firefighter had grown suspicious.
Ford saw several vehicles he suspected were being used to keep him under surveillance, the agent said.
Ford followed the operative to a parking lot near Boulder, where he watched him turn the gun over to federal agents, Schmitt testified.
When Ford returned home that night, he saw what he believed to be vehicles used by federal agents in his neighborhood.
Hours later, as he drove away from his home in his Jaguar, agents stopped Ford and arrested him.
Notes vs. report
A court hearing Wednesday highlighted differences between the handwritten notes of an FBI and police interview with Denver firefighter Stan Ford, who is accused of illegal guns sales, and the final report of that interview.
•THE NOTES
One passage in the handwritten notes of FBI Agent W. Brian Schmitt said "loves guns" and "buy and sell guns legally."
•THE REPORT
The corresponding passage in Schmitt's official report included a direct quotation attributed to Ford: "I love guns. I love to buy and sell guns. I live for this and if it was taken away, life would not have any meaning to me."
The final portion of the quote does not appear in the agent's notes. When asked if the quote was "verbatim," the agent said it was.
What's next
• Perhaps as soon as today, U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn may rule on a defense motion to suppress Ford's statements. • Six days, April 17-20 and April 24-25, have been scheduled by the judge for Ford's trial.
