Alaska L-39 NTSB Preliminary Released...

[HangerRat]

Jeez -- you both need a time-out. More wacky accident reports, please; I get all the IRS gobbledy-gook I can stand elsewhere.

HangerRat, are you misspelling "hangar" on purpose?

Hangarrat was already taken.

 

[HangerRat]

Let me guess, you're from a state with a name that begins and ends with a vowel or Missouri. Your parent gives you Ritalin for one reason or another and everybody in your family has jutting forheads and mono-brow.

HMM. . . not. You are a weirdo.

 

[HangerRat]

What difference does it make? I bet he can name all of the characters on the Simpsons, all three judges on American Idol and the name of the dog on Family guy...and none of the constitutional amendments. Which for Sedalia and places like it, ranks right up there with MENSA material.

WTF does this mean? I don't pay attention to any of that crap. Why don't you can it. I guarantee I am a bigger conservative than your goofy a$$.

 

[FN FAL]

I guarantee I am a bigger conservative than your goofy a$$.

I'm sure you are.

 

[FN FAL]

Kane asserts his innocence

COURT: "Commander" of Security Aviation denies weapons charges.
By RICHARD MAUER
Anchorage Daily News
Published: February 28, 2006
Last Modified: February 28, 2006 at 05:53 PM



Rob Kane, the self-proclaimed "commander" of the tiny air force of Security Aviation and Regional Protective Services, pleaded not guilty Monday to four federal weapons charges stemming from the purchase of air-to-ground rocket launchers last year.


Attorneys for Kane, 37, of Eagle River, say the two mail-order, 16-tube launchers that arrived at the Security Aviation hanger were nonfunctional and designed to make some of the fleet of eight Czech L-39 Albatross jets look like attack aircraft rather than two-seat military trainers. [ Here we go with assault aircraft bans, those evil looking planes are military style and seen as "not being generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to a sporting, agricultural or transportation purpose" -fal]

But the government, in charging Kane with conspiracy, possession, attempted possession and unlawful transportation of an unregistered "destructive device," said the launchers must be registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record to be held legally.

Kane was arrested Feb. 2 when the FBI led raids of Security Aviation's hangars at Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport and in Palmer and at the office building at 3230 C St. where the government said Kane had two offices.

The owner of Security Aviation, Regional Protective Services and several other related companies, Anchorage attorney Mark Avery, has his headquarters in the C Street complex. Avery, a former state and municipal prosecutor, has not been charged with anything. He has declined to be interviewed.

Kane was indicted last week along with Security Aviation, an air charter and medevac company. The company has a long history in Alaska aviation. Avery purchased the company last summer and immediately began expanding, purchasing the Czech jets, two long-range Gulfstream executive jets, helicopters and other aircraft.

Security Aviation was scheduled to enter a plea to three federal weapons counts next week, but its attorney, Bob Bundy, said Monday he might try to move up the appearance to this week. Bundy attended Kane's arraignment as a spectator.

Penalties on the charges against Kane range from five to 10 years in prison. Both Kane and the company could face fines of $250,000 for each charge.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Steve Skrocki said at the arraignment investigators are still going through evidence seized in the raids, including computer hard drives.

Kane remains in jail following a magistrate's ruling almost three weeks ago that he represented a flight risk. His lawyers are appealing that decision to U.S. District Court, though attorney Kevin Fitzgerald said Monday that Kane may drop the appeal in favor of asking Magistrate John Roberts to reconsider.

Fitzgerald said he'd propose releasing Kane on $100,000 bail in the custody of someone who wasn't an employee of one of Avery's companies -- a change from earlier proposal when all the proposed custodians were associated with Avery. Fitzgerald said Kane would willingly undergo electronic monitoring, the kind of activity performed by Regional Protective Services until its equipment was seized.

Kane, dressed in bright jail clothes, was led handcuffed into court. About two dozen friends and co-workers filled one side of the courtroom, including his Filipino wife. Kane, growing a new beard, firmly said "not guilty" to each of the four charges.

When the arraignment ended and Roberts left the courtroom, Kane's wife's bodyguard, a man with a shaved head and huge bulging muscles, caught Kane's eye and made a clenched-fist gesture.

:nuts:

 

[HangerRat]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH damn I thought you were FINALLY done BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

[FN FAL]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH dang I thought you were FINALLY done BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

US Soldiers are getting maimed and killed so that you, people like you and people who don't have jutting foreheads and mono-brow can speak their minds and that's the best you can come up with?

 

[mar]

Physical violence

I admit it. HangerRat needs to be smacked like a little girl but let's be honest...That's not why American soldiers are being killed today.

 

[epic!]

did this turn into a discussion on the war or something?

 

[81Horse]

I thought it was about whether or not the General's wife is hot ...

 

[FN FAL]

I thought it was about whether or not the General's wife is hot ...

Yes, the General's wife is hot. At least I think so anyway...but then again, anything above room temperature that smells good, is hot to me.

No, the discussion did not turn into a discussion about war, nor terrorism. This thread remains to be a thread on the L-39 crash and the subject of the owner's alleged possession and transportation of Title II firearms, which require that a TAX be paid.

And to answer Mar...smacked, yes. Reason for soldiers dying, I agree with Mar's question, my question to HangerRat was merely rhetorical.

 

[epic!]

thats cool, i skimmed over parts of it and saw something about soldiers dying and stuff and was to lazy to read all 5 pages, so i just assumed it got way off topic

 

[FN FAL]

thats cool, i skimmed over parts of it and saw something about soldiers dying and stuff and was to lazy to read all 5 pages, so i just assumed it got way off topic

No problem.

In summation...

I think we figured out that the Federal Government has the authority to regulate a) Import/Export b) Interstate Commerce c) National Security d) Crimes against the Federal Government.

We know for a fact that the owner of the L-39 was indicted on the alleged possession and transportation of a Destructive Device, which is regulated by the ATF as Title II firearm. Which requires compliance procedure, including a $200.00 Tax.

What we don't know for sure, is whether or not a de-militarized rocket pod is actually a Destructive Device and not just some hunk of metal with an EVIL shape. That's what the trial will discover.

Any other questions?

 

[HangerRat]

We also figured out that fnfal can't do anything without posting pages and pages of garbage.


WTF is jutting foreheads and monobrow anyways? Get a grip.

 

[FN FAL]

WTF is jutting foreheads and monobrow anyways?

It was a present the milk man left to you in the form of genetic coding, nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[HangerRat]

umm. ok you are one funny homo.

 

[FN FAL]

umm. ok you are one funny homo.

You sure are one sore loser.

 

[FN FAL]

umm. ok you are one funny homo.

So now that you're all studied up, see the chunk of metal for sale on the link for about what a first year airline pilot will gross...

http://mr40mm.com/page7.html

...how much is the "TAX" on that item?

 

[HS125]

So now that you're all studied up, see the chunk of metal for sale on the link for about what a first year airline pilot will gross...

http://mr40mm.com/page7.html

...how much is the "TAX" on that item?

$200.00?

 

[FN FAL]

$200.00?

Actually, you and me can't pay a tax on that. It's a Post 1986 Dealer Sample...so it's transfer is tax exempt. Those can only transfer between the Government, Class II manufacturers and Class III dealers. If it was made and registered before 1986, it could have been transferable on a 200.00 tax. There's only about 6 of those pre-1986 transferable "mini-guns" in the US and they sell for better than a 250,000.00 bucks. So that's what you and me would be able to pay a 200.00 tax on...if we we're rich.

Kind of confusing isn't it? Kind of illustrates how easy the L-39 guy may have gotten himself into hot water with the rocket pod situtation.

What I would like to know is how come the feds just now realized that these rocket pods were "Destructive Devices"?

The article said they had "Russian" writing on them, so that would indicate that they were imported. And that means that they either came in as de-militarized metal objects with Russian writing on them or they came in as war equipment and somebody did the paperwork to import them.

Here's the real question...how come who ever sold these items to the L-39 operator isn't mentioned in any indictments?

 

[mar]

You need to read the local rag

Here's the real question...how come who ever sold these items to the L-39 operator isn't mentioned in any indictments?

You're gonna have to register but if you're really interested in the "back-story" go to www.adn.com

Do a search on Security Aviation. Lots of interesting stuff lately.

I'd summarize it for you but I don't have the time and I'd probably get something wrong.

Real cops and robbers stuff.

 

[FN FAL]

You're gonna have to register but if you're really interested in the "back-story" go to www.adn.com

Do a search on Security Aviation. Lots of interesting stuff lately.

I'd summarize it for you but I don't have the time and I'd probably get something wrong.

Real cops and robbers stuff.

Thanks mar, the link worked and I didn't need to register to do the search.

 

[A Squared]

My thoughts on what is "really" happening with this guy?

The guy is a big time poseur, as well as being a petty criminal. He has had brushes with the law on fraud type offenses. At various times he has claimed to be a professional rodeo cowboy and a former Navy Seal. The pro rodeo cowboy claim was on some sort of financial application along with claims of ficticious winnings, none of which happened, hence the fraud. Anyway, I think it was posing as a Navy Seal that got him in trouble. Now, real Seals do not like fakes who claim to be Seals, and my guess is that his legal problems have as much to do with some former seals, currently in the FBI and/or ATF looking for some payback than they do with actual interest in a rocket pod with no rockets which nobody cared about before, and may have already been demilatarized.

But hey, that's just my baseless speculation.

 

[FN FAL]

My thoughts on what is "really" happening with this guy?

The guy is a big time poseur, as well as being a petty criminal. He has had brushes with the law on fraud type offenses. At various times he has claimed to be a professional rodeo cowboy and a former Navy Seal. The pro rodeo cowboy claim was on some sort of financial application along with claims of ficticious winnings, none of which happened, hence the fraud. Anyway, I think it was posing as a Navy Seal that got him in trouble. Now, real Seals do not like fakes who claim to be Seals, and my guess is that his legal problems have as much to do with some former seals, currently in the FBI and/or ATF looking for some payback than they do with actual interest in a rocket pod with no rockets which nobody cared about before, and may have already been demilatarized.

But hey, that's just my baseless speculation.

Yea, there is a little bit of creepyness with the memrobilia that he has, but that really is one thing. One of the news articles said he a .45 pistol with silencer, the silencer is regulated as Title II firearm and would get you the same attention as the rocket pod...as well as the same punishment.

Since we haven't heard any news about the silencer, we have to assume that it was registered in the NFA registry and that a tax was paid. So, this Kene [sp?] guy was familiar with the NFA Firearms process. One would have to assume that if this is true, that he was convinced that the racks were demilitarized. What point would it make to comply with NFA Tax law in one instance, then try to save a couple hundred bucks with something that was going to be so transparent in another situation?

 

[A Squared]

Yea, there is a little bit of creepyness with the memrobilia that he has, but that really is one thing. One of the news articles said he a .45 pistol with silencer, the silencer is regulated as Title II firearm and would get you the same attention as the rocket pod...as well as the same punishment.

Since we haven't heard any news about the silencer, we have to assume that it was registered in the NFA registry and that a tax was paid. So, this Kene [sp?] guy was familiar with the NFA Firearms process. One would have to assume that if this is true, that he was convinced that the racks were demilitarized. What point would it make to comply with NFA Tax law in one instance, then try to save a couple hundred bucks with something that was going to be so transparent in another situation?

I agree, something's not adding up, that's one of the reasons for my speculation that the atf/fbi's motives are grounded more in *who* he is rather than what he poseses.

 

[blingair]

So anyways......I was in Ketchican the other day and the folks at the airport were talking about the crash. The ceilings and vis were pretty low with a tailwind coming down the only approach (ILS) at a good clip. He opted to make right traffic (which is not authorized) and is over the town. The eye witnesses said he clipped a hill damaging the a/c, dropped his drop tanks and tried to point the nose towards the mouth of a creek in order to minimalize collateral damage and ejected but the rig went T/U and he died. One of our pilots had dinner with him in SIT the night before and it sounded like the whole ferry operation was pretty sketchy...no gyros or reliable instruments in a land of nasty IMC. Getting paid to do a job and not living long enough to collect it is a poor choice in my book.

 

[FN FAL]

I agree, something's not adding up, that's one of the reasons for my speculation that the atf/fbi's motives are grounded more in *who* he is rather than what he poseses.

That would be interesting. Here's that "howitzer" I said was for sale...I guess once again I was wrong. It's a 3" 50 Caliber Naval gun. Classified as a Destructive Device. Only 28 grand.

I suppose as long as you don't own a plethora of funny looking military hats and have a fetish for collecting police badges and shoulder patches, you could probably own this gem without being indicted by federal prosecutors for being a "rogue cowboy" guy. :laugh:

Full Disclosure Notice: I am passing this ad along from a friend. No, I (regretfully) do not own this wonderful little item, will not be paid if it sells, etc. His phone number has been edited out of the ad; just send an email if you're a serious buyer and you can take it from there.

Alright here is a real beast for sale. The Navy 3 inch 50. This gun is a live, and uncut. It has been mounted on an unknown type military wagon style trailer. The trailer is heavy duty with 4 outriggers. This gun looks like it belongs on this trailer. The gun can easily be removed from the trailer for stationary fun or a lawn ornament. The gun can elevate to almost 90% and depress to the negative. It can traverse 360%. The gun is designed to be fired with two people. One person on each side of the gun. Each person has fire controls. One person adjusts the elevation the other windage. This is all kinds of fun just to play with in the yard. This gun is extremely shootable with ammunition components very common and inexpensive. Gun will come with approximately 15 pieces of steel cases and 40 projectiles. This gun was at the SAR show if you were there.

Someone in AZ needs to step up and buy this beast. It very well could be one of the funnest shooting guns we have had and I really want to be able to see it again

All for the smoking price of 28,000

For a pic of the gun click the link:
http://tinypic.com/jjv6z8.jpg

For more information on the gun check out this web site:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_3-50_mk10-22.htm

Email or call for questions
Bob
[email protected]

 

[blingair]

Rad..

 

[FN FAL]

Rad..

It is interesting. I could see where something like that would fun to have for a conversation piece.

You and I both could guess off the top of our heads that something like that must require paperwork...who would buy such a thing without at least asking around? And in reality, you can't just take possession of something like that without your ATF paperwork in hand, the seller wouldn't allow it for one. Can you say CONSPIRACY?

However, if it had a plug welded over the muzzle, would that mean that it was DE-MILITARIZED enough to meet ATF standards for pulling the device out of the registry? Wouldn't that action alone, make the naval gun a huge paper weight? I don't know...and that's where the correlation is made to the case of the guy with the alleged Destructive Device rocket pods. At what point would they have become just metal objects that "looked" like a functioning rocket pod?

If I am not mistaken I seem to remember that the ATF's definition of being de-militarized enough, is that it should take more than 8 hours for a person to get the object functioning as Title II firearm again. Whatever that means? Skilled or unskilled? Hell, I'd have to learn how to use specific tools before I could consider pulling a welded plug out of naval gun barrel...just learning how to take the plug out could take more than 8 hours. I'll have to go look that one up.

 

[blingair]

There was two of these L-39s that were repo'd and were to be flown from ANC-SEA, one was in such bad shape that it landed in Sitka and remains there today and the other one of course crashed. Its a pretty cool looking airplane but hardly a fighter, at least by American standards. Seems like these things are the new doctor killers behind the Cirrus I mean.
FAL: because I'm a nerd, I just bought one of those tactical slings like the gents in your avatar...its really comfy. I can vaccum the house, pick up the kids from tennis, do the dishes, mow the lawn, shave and hardly know its there. I'm really good at sweeping and clearing my own house. I highly recomend it to anyone who wishes to have 30 rounds of deadly .223 at their disposal. Also works well with the AK.