Alaska L-39 NTSB Preliminary Released...

[FN FAL]

Since Miller was decided, lower federal and state courts have addressed the meaning of the Second Amendment in more than thirty cases. In every case, the courts have decided that the Amendment guarantees a right to be armed only in connection with service in a "well regulated Militia." The courts unanimously have rejected the NRA's view that the Second Amendment is about the self-defense or sporting uses of guns. As the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit wrote, the courts "have analyzed the Second Amendment purely in terms of protecting state militias, rather than individual rights." United States v. Nelson, 859 F.2d 1318 (1988).

I'm sorry, but you can't cite what the gay guys say over at the "violence policy center" as fact.

And besides, even a child knows that the "national guard" is not the 'militia'.

I'm sure if you edited things that Sadam or Hitler said, you could take what's left and use it for grounds to nominate them for the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I'm sorry, but you can't cite what the gay guys say over at the "violence policy center" as fact.

And besides, even a child knows that the "national guard" is not the 'militia'.

I'm sure if you edited things that Sadam or Hitler said, you could take what's left and use it for grounds to nominate them for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Those are Supreme Court Rulings. One of the checks and balances built into this great government system. It may have its flaws but its the best thing going. Is your last name McVeigh?

 

[FN FAL]

Those are Supreme Court Rulings. One of the checks and balances built into this great government system. It may have its flaws but its the best thing going. Is your last name McVeigh?

No, my name isn't Timothy McVeigh and yes, the Second Amendment is the balance between the people and the Government, not supreme court rulings.

Let's carry it out a little further...for review, for those who only possess the king james version of the constitution, here's United States v. Lopez.

The brady bill said that you couldn't possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. Lopez brought a gun to school and was arrested by the local cops. Lopez was then subsequently grabbed by the feds and the local cops dropped their local charges. Lopez argued that the federal government didn't have the authority to regulate firearm possession on state school grounds and the justices agreed...which meant that that portion of the Brady Bill was thrown out.

If the federal government is supreme allied commander of all what goes on on school grounds and guns, why did they rule that they themselves were in the wrong in regards to the relevant portion of the Brady Bill?

Maybe the Supreme Court is the Timothy McVeigh and the blind man is the sheppard and the gun is tyranny of evil men. Or, maybe the sheppard is the valley and the gun is Timothy McVeigh and the sidewalk is evil men running from tyranny?

 

[FN FAL]

Those are Supreme Court Rulings. One of the checks and balances built into this great government system. It may have its flaws but its the best thing going. Is your last name McVeigh?

I don't really know why you're calling me McVeigh, McVeigh did not pay his tax on the Destructive Device he used to blow up the Okie federal building. I pay my taxes. You must have me confused with someone else.

By the way, I found where you lifted the text you used, did you realize that United States v. Miller was ruled on in 1894? Boy them checks and balances are pretty slow to getting round the rest of the country.

Here's the rest of the text you lifted, including some illuminating detail that was left up to the imagination of people who read what you scrolled and pasted...

In United States v. Miller,4 the Court sustained a statute requiring registration under the National Firearms Act of sawed-off shotguns. After reciting the original provisions of the Constitution dealing with the militia, the Court observed that ''[w]ith obvious purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of such forces the declaration and guarantee of the Second Amendment were made. It must be interpreted with that end in view.''5 The significance of the militia, the Court continued, was that it was composed of ''civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.'' It was upon this force that the States could rely for defense and securing of the laws, on a force that ''comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense,'' who, ''when called for service . . . were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.''6 Therefore, ''n the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well- regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.''7
Since this decision, Congress has placed greater limitations on the receipt, possession, and transportation of firearms,8 and proposals for national registration or prohibition of firearms altogether have been made.9 At what point regulation or prohibition of what classes of firearms would conflict with the Amendment, if at all, the Miller case does little more than cast a faint degree of illumination toward an answer.

 

[HangerRat]

Dude, you need to take a big chill pill. I am a big gun nut myself. You write so much crap noone can even tell what side you are on. Find somewhere else to do your endless ranting and raving about nonsense.

No, my name isn't Timothy McVeigh and yes, the Second Amendment is the balance between the people and the Government, not supreme court rulings.

Let's carry it out a little further...for review, for those who only possess the king james version of the constitution, here's United States v. Lopez.

The brady bill said that you couldn't possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. Lopez brought a gun to school and was arrested by the local cops. Lopez was then subsequently grabbed by the feds and the local cops dropped their local charges. Lopez argued that the federal government didn't have the authority to regulate firearm possession on state school grounds and the justices agreed...which meant that that portion of the Brady Bill was thrown out.

If the federal government is supreme allied commander of all what goes on on school grounds and guns, why did they rule that they themselves were in the wrong in regards to the relevant portion of the Brady Bill?

Maybe the Supreme Court is the Timothy McVeigh and the blind man is the sheppard and the gun is tyranny of evil men. Or, maybe the sheppard is the valley and the gun is Timothy McVeigh and the sidewalk is evil men running from tyranny?

 

[FN FAL]

Dude, you need to take a big chill pill. I am a big gun nut myself. You write so much crap noone can even tell what side you are on. Find somewhere else to do your endless ranting and raving about nonsense.

What side? I'm on the people's side.

All you have to do hanger rat, is provide the CFR that prohibits the possession of the rocket launchers that the militaria memrobillia freak had and I'll shut up. That is, if the reg you provide is relevent and contains no provisions or exemptions for private possession of such evil metal shapes.

By the way, when you said I lacked the inside information on the Alaska delio, did you mean to tell us that the subject was also found with dark brown slacks that had light brown stripes on them? Kind of like the ones that sheriff deputies wear? Or did the guy have another double secret agent windbreaker that nobody is telling us about?

 

[HangerRat]

No comprende. I don't know what you are saying. Nor do I want to understand your gibberish. I do not care to provide any "CFR" to you. I could actually care less. Chill.

What side? I'm on the people's side.

All you have to do hanger rat, is provide the CFR that prohibits the possession of the rocket launchers that the militaria memrobillia freak had and I'll shut up. That is, if the reg you provide is relevent and contains no provisions or exemptions for private possession of such evil metal shapes.

By the way, when you said I lacked the inside information on the Alaska delio, did you mean to tell us that the subject was also found with dark brown slacks that had light brown stripes on them? Kind of like the ones that sheriff deputies wear? Or did the guy have another double secret agent windbreaker that nobody is telling us about?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

FN FAL, aren't you moving to Peru?

 

[FN FAL]

No comprende. I don't know what you are saying. Nor do I want to understand your gibberish. I do not care to provide any "CFR" to you. I could actually care less. Chill.

This one was easy enough to find...

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 2]
[Revised as of April 1, 2005]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 27CFR447.21]

[Page 7-11]

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 447_IMPORTATION OF ARMS, AMMUNITION AND IMPLEMENTS OF WAR--Table
of Contents

Subpart C_The U.S. Munitions Import List

Sec. 447.21 The U.S. Munitions Import List.


The U.S. Munitions List compiled by the Department of State, Office
of Defense Trade Controls, and published at 22 CFR 121.1, with the
deletions indicated, has been adopted as an enumeration of the defense
articles subject to controls under this part. The expurgated list, set
out below, shall, for the purposes of this part, be known as the U.S.
Munitions Import List:

The U.S. Munitions Import List

category i--firearms

(a) Nonautomatic and semiautomatic firearms, to caliber .50
inclusive, combat shotguns, and shotguns with barrels less than 18
inches in length, and all components and parts for such firearms.
(b) Automatic firearms and all components and parts for such
firearms to caliber .50 inclusive.
(c) Insurgency-counterinsurgency type firearms of other weapons
having a special military application (e.g. close assault weapons
systems) regardless of caliber and all components and parts for such
firearms.
(d) Firearms silencers and suppressors, including flash suppressors.

category ii--artillery projectors

(a) Guns over caliber .50, howitzers, mortars, and recoiless rifles.
(b) Military flamethrowers and projectors.
(c) Components, parts, accessories, and attachments for the articles
in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this category, including but not limited to
mounts and carriages for these articles.

category iii--ammunition

(a) Ammunition for the arms in Categories I and II of this section.
(b) Components, parts, accessories, and attachments for articles in
paragraph (a) of this category, including but not limited to cartridge
cases, powder bags, bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding shotgun
shells), projectiles, boosters, fuzes and components therefor, primers,
and other detonating devices for such ammunition.
(c) Ammunition belting and linking machines.
(d) Ammunition manufacturing machines and ammunition loading
machines (except handloading ones).

category iv--launch vehicles, guided missiles, ballistic missiles,
rockets, torpedoes, bombs and mines

(a) Rockets (including but not limited to meteorological and other
sounding rockets), bombs, grenades, torpedoes, depth charges, land and
naval mines, as well as launchers for such defense articles, and
demolition blocks and blasting caps.
(b) Launch vehicles and missile and anti-missile systems including
but not limited to guided, tactical and strategic missiles, launchers,
and systems.
(c) Apparatus, devices, and materials for the handling, control,
activation, monitoring, detection, protection, discharge, or detonation
of the articles in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this category. Articles in
this category include, but are not limited to, the following: Fuses and
components for the items in this category, bomb racks and shackles, bomb
shackle release units, bomb ejectors, torpedo tubes, torpedo and guided
missile boosters, guidance system equipment and parts, launching racks
and projectors, pistols (exploders), igniters, fuze arming devices,
intervalometers, guided missile launchers and specialized handling
equipment, and hardened missile launching facilities.
(d) Missile and space vehicle powerplants.
(e) Military explosive excavating devices.
(g) Non/nuclear warheads for rockets and guided missiles.
(h) All specifically designed components or modified components,
parts, accessories, attachments, and associated equipment for the
articles in this category.

category vi--vessels of war and special naval equipment

(a) Warships, amphibious warfare vessels, landing craft, mine
warfare vessels, patrol vessels, auxiliary vessels and service craft,
experimental types of naval ships and any vessels specifically designed
or modified for military purposes.
(b) Turrets and gun mounts, arresting gear, special weapons systems,
protective systems, submarine storage batteries, catapults and other
components, parts, attachments, and accessories specifically designed or
modified for combatant vessels.
(c) Mine sweeping equipment.
(d) Harbor entrance detection devices (magnetic, pressure, and
acoustic ones) and controls and components therefor.
(e) Naval nuclear propulsion plants, their land prototypes and
special facilities for their construction, support and maintenance. This
includes any machinery, device, component, or equipment specifically
developed or designed or modified for use in such plants or facilities.

category vii--tanks and military vehicles

(a) Military type armed or armored vehicles, military railway
trains, and vehicles specifically designed or modified to accommodate
mountings for arms or other specialized military equipment or fitted
with such items.
(b) Military tanks, combat engineer vehicles, bridge launching
vehicles, halftracks and gun carriers.
(c) Self-propelled guns and howitzers.
(f) Amphibious vehicles.
(g) Engines specifically designed or modified for the vehicles in
paragraphs (a), (b), (c), and (f) of this category.
(h) All specifically designed or modified components and parts,
accessories, attachments, and associated equipment for the articles in
this category, including but not limited to military bridging and deep
water fording kits.

Note: An ``amphibious vehicle'' in Category VII(f) is an automotive
vehicle or chassis which embodies all-wheel drive, which is equipped to
meet special military requirements, and which has sealed electrical
systems and adaptation features for deep water fording.

category viii--aircraft, spacecraft, and associated equipment

(a) Aircraft, including but not limited to helicopters, non-
expansive balloons, drones and lighter-than-air aircraft, which are
specifically designed, modified, or equipped for military purposes. This
includes but is not limited to the following military purposes: gunnery,
bombing, rocket or missile launching, electronic and other surveillance,
reconnaissance, refueling, aerial mapping, military liaison, cargo
carrying or dropping, personnel dropping, airborne warning and control,
and military training.

Note: Category VIII (b) through (j) and Categories IX, X, XI, XII
and XIII of ``Munitions List'' deleted as inapplicable to imports.
Note: In Category VIII, ``aircraft'' means aircraft designed,
modified, or equipped for a military purpose, including aircraft
described as ``demilitarized.'' All aircraft bearing an original
military designation are included in Category VIII. However, the
following aircraft are not so included so long as they have not been
specifically equipped, reequipped, or modified for military operations:
(a) Cargo aircraft bearing ``C'' designations and numbered C-45
through C-118 inclusive,and C-121 through C-125 inclusive, and C-131, using reciprocating
engines only.
(b) Trainer aircraft bearing ``T'' designations and using
reciprocating engines or turboprop engines with less than 600 horsepower
(s.h.p.).
(c) Utility aircraft bearing ``U'' designations and using
reciprocating engines only.
(d) All liaison aircraft bearing an ``L'' designation.
(e) All observation aircraft bearing ``O'' designations and using
reciprocating engines.

category xiv--toxicological agents and equipment and radiological
equipment

(a) Chemical agents, including but not limited to lung irritants,
vesicants, lachrymators, and tear gases (except tear gas formulations
containing 1% or less CN or CS), sternutators and irritant smoke, and
nerve gases and incapacitating agents.
(b) Biological agents.
(c) Equipment for dissemination, detection, and identification of,
and defense against, the articles in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this
category.
(d) Nuclear radiation detection and measuring devices manufactured
to military specification.
(e) Components, parts, accessories, attachments, and associated
equipment specifically designed or modified for the articles in
paragraphs (c) and (d) of this category.

Note: A chemical agent in Category XIV(a) is a substance having
military application which by its ordinary and direct chemical action
produces a powerful physiological effect. The term ``chemical agent''
includes, but is not limited to, the following chemical compounds:
(a) Lung irritants:
(b) Vesicants:
(c) Lachrymators and tear gases:
(d) Sternutators and irritant smokes:
(e) Nerve agents, gases, and aerosols. These are toxic compounds
which affect the nervous system, such as:
(f) Antiplant chemicals, such as: Butyl 2-chloro-4-
fluorophenoxyacetate (LNF).

category xvi--nuclear weapons design and test equipment

(a) Any article, material, equipment, or device, which is
specifically designed or modified for use in the design, development, or
fabrication of nuclear weapons or nuclear explosive devices.
(b) Any article, material, equipment, or device, which is
specifically designed or modified for use in the devising, carrying out,
or evaluating of nuclear weapons tests or any other nuclear explosions,
except such items as are in normal commercial use for other purposes.

 

[FN FAL]

FN FAL, aren't you moving to Peru?

Don't go away mad, there are fees mentioned on page 11, for importing rockets and rocket launchers and torpedo tubes and submarines...

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 2]
[Revised as of April 1, 2005]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 27CFR447.32]

[Page 11]

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 447_IMPORTATION OF ARMS, AMMUNITION AND IMPLEMENTS OF WAR--Table
of Contents

Subpart D_Registration

Sec. 447.32 Application for registration and refund of fee.

(a) Application for registration must be filed on ATF Form 4587 and
must be accompanied by the registration fee at the rate prescribed in
this section. The appropriate ATF officer will approve the application
and return the original to the applicant.
(b) Registration may be effected for periods of from 1 to 5 years at
the option of the registrant by identifying on Form 4587 the period of
registration desired. The registration fees are as follows:

1 year.......................................................... $250
2 years......................................................... 500
3 years......................................................... 700
4 years......................................................... 850
5 years......................................................... 1,000


(c) Fees paid in advance for whole future years of a multiple year
registration will be refunded upon request if the registrant ceases to
engage in importing articles on the U.S. Munitions Import List. A
request for a refund must be submitted to the appropriate ATF officer at
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Washington, DC 20226, prior
to the beginning of any year for which a refund is claimed.

(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number
1512-0021)

[T.D. ATF-8, 39 FR 3251, Jan. 25, 1974, as amended by T.D. ATF-215, 50
FR 42161, Oct. 18, 1985; T.D. ATF-484, 67 FR 64526, Oct. 21, 2002]