Alaska contract

[Dan Roman]

CAL was 5 years pre-merger. Spirit is 2. Virgin is 2. Delta is 13. SWA is 10.

Didn't realize CAL had been so quick. HA has widebody Captains in just under 5 years. Good point about the upstart airlines, they actually have pilots that made Captain in 1 day, if you count their first classes.

 

[flythere]

Did anybody else notice they quietly added a new route out of SEA today?? SEA-HDN, will be served by SkyWest!! The hits just keep on a commin' man!!!

 

[bri5150]

I would put Virgin optomistically at 5 now. Total guess with no data. It would be a miracle at 2 years now.

 

[fam62c]

SWA upgrade is about 20 years for those at the bottom, 12 years to get 50% up the FO list for those at the bottom. SWA is about the slowest moving list in the industry with no plans for fleet growth as of now. It looks like the Big-3 legacy carriers will be the best place to be once hiring gets in gear a couple years from now, they represent the best combination of compensation and career progression. We have to hope the ball gets rolling and keeps rolling.

 

[ROSWELL41]

Spirit's upgrade will be more like 2.5 years for those hired in 2011. Pretty decent for an airline that has been around for over 20 years.

 

[Dan Roman]

SWA upgrade is about 20 years for those at the bottom, 12 years to get 50% up the FO list for those at the bottom. SWA is about the slowest moving list in the industry with no plans for fleet growth as of now. It looks like the Big-3 legacy carriers will be the best place to be once hiring gets in gear a couple years from now, they represent the best combination of compensation and career progression. We have to hope the ball gets rolling and keeps rolling.

Couldn't agree more about the big 3 legacies, my guess AA in particular is going to lose the most and therefore hire the most. I would think anyone who gets on with any of those carriers will fly up the list. Pretty much has to after the huge gap since they hired last translates into a very old seniority list.
Hawaiian has laid out that they will go from a list of about 650 to a little over 1000 by 2020. Not sure how many retirements we have, but one thing that will keep anyone from getting too stagnant is they hire all ages, up to pilots being hired in their fifties. So their won't be a big block of all young pilots when the expansion slows. But we sure won't be hiring at the rate the big 3 will.

 

[jonjuan]

Couldn't agree more about the big 3 legacies, my guess AA in particular is going to lose the most and therefore hire the most. I would think anyone who gets on with any of those carriers will fly up the list. Pretty much has to after the huge gap since they hired last translates into a very old seniority list.
Hawaiian has laid out that they will go from a list of about 650 to a little over 1000 by 2020. Not sure how many retirements we have, but one thing that will keep anyone from getting too stagnant is they hire all ages, up to pilots being hired in their fifties. So their won't be a big block of all young pilots when the expansion slows. But we sure won't be hiring at the rate the big 3 will.

Remember in consolidation, 1+1 doesn't = 2. Delta nwa combined at what, 14,000 and now are below 11k?

 

[Old School 737]

Love how the MEC sends out email saying now that contract is settled "and we settled for no increase in 401k " ? it's a good time to up you personal contributions ... These guys I tell ya.. I'm saving the flyer they sent to us At home ... Gonna did it out in a few years and show it to everybody as a De ident doc ..and see how many people think it was put out by the company ... If you didn't know alpa wrote it you'd swear it was from the company ...

 

[Ocity]

Love how the MEC sends out email saying now that contract is settled "and we settled for no increase in 401k " ? it's a good time to up you personal contributions ... These guys I tell ya.. I'm saving the flyer they sent to us At home ... Gonna did it out in a few years and show it to everybody as a De ident doc ..and see how many people think it was put out by the company ... If you didn't know alpa wrote it you'd swear it was from the company ...

HA!! Just saw the email. It should really read, "now that we fked you over...with your permission btw, and given our stunning failure to provide you any additional retirement benefits, you really need to pick up extra flying to bump your 401k savings"

F'king idiots. The day ALPA implodes I'm popping the champagne.

 

[Jim]

F'king idiots. The day ALPA implodes I'm popping the champagne.

Once again blaming others for the way your pilot group negotiated and voted.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Once again blaming others for the way your pilot group negotiated and voted.

The MEC recommended it, and the group followed.

 

[Boxboy]

Once again blaming others for the way your pilot group negotiated and voted.

Blaming only 67% of the voters. As for our negotiating committee, I don't fault them too much. They were out gunned and out witted, as always. Too bad we can't learn from past experiences. Oh well, life goes on.

 

[fam62c]

Blaming only 67% of the voters. As for our negotiating committee, I don't fault them too much. They were out gunned and out witted, as always. Too bad we can't learn from past experiences. Oh well, life goes on.

So what would you have done differently if you had been in charge that would have guaranteed the company would have given you more? If the group had voted no what do you think would have happened next given the realities of modern NMB operating philosophy?

 

[Boxboy]

So what would you have done differently if you had been in charge that would have guaranteed the company would have given you more? If the group had voted no what do you think would have happened next given the realities of modern NMB operating philosophy?

The NC felt that they've achieved all they could so they put out a TA. The MEC unanimously approved it 6-0, WTF! Should have been neutral at best. 1/3 of us voted NO. Would we have gone to the NMB? It's anybody's guess. I tend to think not.
What would I have done differently, you ask? I can't say since I wasn't there and we'll never know. I do know this. Whatever we (ALPA) are doing, it's not working for this pilot group. It hasn't worked since I've been here. In the history of this pilot group, we finally had the leverage to turn things around for the better and we blew it; rolled over again! I didn't know ALPA had a "Spin Doctorate" Ph. D.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

The pilots here don't feel that they deserve better. They still feel that little old Alaska Airlines can't compete with the big boys and we need to accept that. Until that frame of mind leaves this group we will never be compensated what we truly deserve.

Remember when you do 6 legs through SE that this company believes that there are 5 other pilot groups that can do it better. Remember when you land in LIH at night in a driving rain storm that they believe there are 5 other pilot groups that can do it better. Remember when you land on 27R in ORD in a blizzard on a slick runway that they believe there are 5 groups that can do it better.

I use that because at the end of this we will again be in 6th place, where we have always been. The only difference is we went through Kasher to have the ability to negotiate like real airline pilots and not have arbitration hanging over our head. We took a $40k per year pay cut, for this? Aside from the 900 arbitration this has been one s@$* sandwich after another. The pilots who voted yes were either scared into it or looked at Sec. 3 only. This I can guarantee!