Alaska contract

[becket]

Rumor only .. 11 , 4 ,4,4,4, guess well see in a few weeks

I'd be shocked if this were true.

 

[PCL_128]

"...It is a five-year agreement with pay increases that reflect the upward trend in the industry..."

What is more important is what the negotiating committee DIDN'T say. What I need to hear is that our contract contains INDUSTRY LEADING PAY. INDUSTRY LEADING PAY for INDUSTRY LEADING PROFITS.

Really? Pilots consistently shoot themselves in the foot by not considering the time value of money. What good is an extra 5% if you have to wait 5 years to get it? If either of the above rumored pay increases is true, then you should be down on your hands and knees thanking the NC for getting it done so quickly.

 

[Mamma]

The first "rumor" puts Capt pay at $218.60 at the end of 5 years with profit sharing possibly still intact and the A-plan for those in it. FO pay is around $147.75. That seems more realistic than the second "rumor" which is too high.

 

[Ocity]

The first "rumor" puts Capt pay at $218.60 at the end of 5 years with profit sharing possibly still intact and the A-plan for those in it. FO pay is around $147.75. That seems more realistic than the second "rumor" which is too high.

The MOU that American just signed has NB FO rates in 2018 around $156/hr. I will be a little pissed if we can't match a pay rate that a BANKRUPT carrier has just agreed to. Hopefully the first rumor is too low. The second rumor sounds too good to be true.

 

[alaskaplt]

Really? Pilots consistently shoot themselves in the foot by not considering the time value of money. What good is an extra 5% if you have to wait 5 years to get it? If either of the above rumored pay increases is true, then you should be down on your hands and knees thanking the NC for getting it done so quickly.

With this logic you will spend your entire career behind every other carrier. Seems logical for the immediate future but its short sighted. Over a career it's going to keep our earnings lower. The company loves this logic. Other carriers have set the bar and we need to push that bar further. I just fear we do not have that mindset.

 

[Boxboy]

With this logic you will spend your entire career behind every other carrier. Seems logical for the immediate future but its short sighted. Over a career it's going to keep our earnings lower. The company loves this logic. Other carriers have set the bar and we need to push that bar further. I just fear we do not have that mindset.

Completely agree. Too many pussies not enough balls (brains too)!

 

[PCL_128]

With this logic you will spend your entire career behind every other carrier. Seems logical for the immediate future but its short sighted. Over a career it's going to keep our earnings lower. The company loves this logic. Other carriers have set the bar and we need to push that bar further. I just fear we do not have that mindset.

This is nonsense. Management makes out like bandits because pilots believe they can force another $2 out of them in a pay rate. They cry poor to the NMB, they stonewall, and five years later you end up with an extra couple of bucks. In the meantime, management has saved multi-millions, and they laugh at you as they sign on the dotted line, happy as can be.

The path to successful pattern bargaining in a deregulated environment is executing a series of smaller victories. Trying for the big jumps in pay and the complete CBA re-writes is exactly what management wants you to do.

 

[alaskaplt]

This is nonsense. Management makes out like bandits because pilots believe they can force another $2 out of them in a pay rate. They cry poor to the NMB, they stonewall, and five years later you end up with an extra couple of bucks. In the meantime, management has saved multi-millions, and they laugh at you as they sign on the dotted line, happy as can be.

The path to successful pattern bargaining in a deregulated environment is executing a series of smaller victories. Trying for the big jumps in pay and the complete CBA re-writes is exactly what management wants you to do.

Short sighted. When you retire and look back at every contract that was below everyone else's you can say "but I had the time value of money". Though it always is below everyone else somehow this makes sense.
If management wanted us to do what you are saying there would be no agreement in principle. This is what they want right now..This contract signed. And for us to sell it to ourselves based on your time value of money argument like last time. Assuming the rates are what is suggested.

 

[Old School 737]

We need to be the highest NB pay !! Period!! That's all we fly .. The company has never been bankrupt .. They have scope on there side ... We do more with this jet than anybody... The pension is over for any new guys .. The insiders racking up huge profits on there stock options .. It's time ...

 

[PCL_128]

Short sighted. When you retire and look back at every contract that was below everyone else's you can say "but I had the time value of money". Though it always is below everyone else somehow this makes sense.

You're getting too caught up in what everyone else has. This is a simple math problem, not an ego issue. You can certainly get what everyone else has. But you'll have to wait a hell of a long time for it. In the intervening timeframe, you'll have lost far more money than you'll make by the extra gains. What good is bragging rights that you have the "industry leading" pay rate when it took so long to get it that it cost you tens of thousands of dollars?

 

[Boxboy]

This is nonsense. Management makes out like bandits because pilots believe they can force another $2 out of them in a pay rate. They cry poor to the NMB, they stonewall, and five years later you end up with an extra couple of bucks. In the meantime, management has saved multi-millions, and they laugh at you as they sign on the dotted line, happy as can be.

The path to successful pattern bargaining in a deregulated environment is executing a series of smaller victories. Trying for the big jumps in pay and the complete CBA re-writes is exactly what management wants you to do.

Unfortunately, this is the attitude of the majority and it will never change. I get it! Defeatist attitude..... The same people, who during the last round said, "aaahhhh, the mediator will park us". True, he would have, only because our guys f'd up; I'm not going to explain how. Go ask for yourself.
Why does the company want to settle with us, right now?!?! Because they are merciful and graceful? Better wait until hell freezes over. In any case, all this doesn't really matter; it's just entertainment for most people. When the TA comes out, it will pass and history will repeat itself.

 

[msmb]

So what is the "market" rate for a 737 in the U.S.? This "agreement" will be a complete package...scope,retirement,etc...... not just pay. Lets see the package before we vote.

 

[AK737FO]

Truth

So what is the "market" rate for a 737 in the U.S.? This "agreement" will be a complete package...scope,retirement,etc...... not just pay. Lets see the package before we vote.

You are applying logic Sir - something that most of the above posts do not- and that is not allowed on this forum!

 

[Old School 737]

So what is the "market" rate for a 737 in the U.S.? This "agreement" will be a complete package...scope,retirement,etc...... not just pay. Lets see the package before we vote.

I agree I'll look at the whole package ... But still feel we should have the highest package in the land !!! I voted no last time and look at all the money we made !!! Record profits baby !! Look if things get bad in 3 years they will come ask for help .. Please take a pay cut to help us out but do you think the reverse is true .. No !! How come they didn't give us a nice pay raise 2 years ago when we started breaking all these new levels of profits ...

 

[alaskaplt]

So what is the "market" rate for a 737 in the U.S.? This "agreement" will be a complete package...scope,retirement,etc...... not just pay. Lets see the package before we vote.

Nobody has implied they will not look at the whole package. But I agree that it better be an industry leading package.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Unofficially, 11%,1.5%,1.5%,3.5%,1.5%.

That is totally unacceptable!!!!!

 

[Boxboy]

You are applying logic Sir - something that most of the above posts do not- and that is not allowed on this forum!

Logic doesn't apply to this industry or for that matter, to corporate universe!

 

[msmb]

To all the above .....I agree with you all. We will have to see the package and go from there. This is not the time to settle for anything less than what we deserve. We do more with the 737 than most other carriers in the world, its time to be paid for it. I have been on strike once before and know what it means....not fun but sometimes a necessary evil. I know its still a long way off but this pilot group is much too weak to call managements bluff. Sad but true.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

I just wonder if our anger is misdirected. Should we be upset at our NC or MEC for bringing a subpar TA for memrat? Maybe the NC is bringing a TA that matches the polls, so this TA could be our collective fault. Our pay rates could end up at DAL-$5. It's BS, but do we go on strike so that we can prove a point and get DAL+$1?

As cooler heads have mentioned, we need to look at the whole package. Some parts of our contract are better than other airlines. It's tough to gauge the value of those benefits. It's easy to look at the dollar amount. It's difficult to assign a value on training pay, vacation pay, high (if not highest) reserve guarantee, etc. It's natural to pick the parts of our contract that are inferior and ignore the parts that superior. Off the top of my head, we beat UA and DL for pay and credit for vacation, training, and reserve.

 

[SneakyJake]

Seeing how the left seat could be years off, I'm not sure an extra $800 take home a month for the next five years is going to help out tremendously.