AirTran's going to SFO

[Ty Webb]

Delta's strategy, to date, has not been effective. It is pretty much the 1970's -1980's era strategy of taking huge losses to keep market share . . . hoping that the competition will go under. It doesn;t work when the competiton, despite your best efforts, is still making money, and you are losing money.

While it has resulted in huge losses for Delta, AirTran has been growing at an annual rate of over 25%, and out of Delta's "Fortress Hub".

The point I am trying to make is that what you guys are doing isn't working. If that is pilots "playing management", then so be it. I was in the business world before I logged my first paid hour as a Commercial Pilot, and flying airplanes didn't cause me to somehow part with the knowledge I acquired while not serving as a yoke and throttle operator. . . . and I am a Y&T Operator by choice, so don;t anyone get their pantaloons in an uproar- it's just a joke, fercryinoutloud.

Song will not succeed as a LCC per se, what it will do is get the "camel's nose under the tent" to force changes company-wide. That is why the pilots union is not going along, and, as I said before, i think that is smart, because "as goes Song, will go mainline".

And the RJ's? You can keep 'em. They can;t compete against the 717. The costs are identical, but with less revenue, smaller cabin, single-class seating, and, let;s face it, less service. How is 1 F/A for 50 pax on a short flight going to compete with 3 F/A's for 117?
Do you guys even have booze on those RJ's? All I seem to get is water or lemonade . . . . . maybe the FA's are holding out on me.

At least on our flights, I can change my shirt and enjoy some of that AirTran hospitality on my way home!

 

[FL717]

FL717,

What do you expect Delta to do - roll over and die?

Why should Delta cede any more market share? It will adapt and modify its marketing mix and better utilize its assets (i.e., fleet, strategic alliances, expansive route structure and frequent flyer program). This LCC situation will actually help Delta become a more efficient and cost-conscious airline - one that can compete more effectively against AirTran, JetBlue and Southwest. Meanwhile, the other majors operate without a plan of attack and continue to focus on cost-cutting. Song could eventually operate 100+ 757s (with a product that low-fare customers enjoy - not just a cattle car) throughout the system - directly competing with your product. Delta will become a more formidable airline in the future because of AirTran, Jetblue and Southwest. Delta is adapting to the market much faster than the other majors - and for that it should be applauded...

Just my $.02

I understand and appreciate your $.02. Mine is worth about half of that.

I don't expect Delta to roll over and die. I also want to add the following. Several years ago Continental was the airline that I wanted to work for. I felt they were the "best" out there. They have/are recovering very nicely... though I don't seem to find many of their pilots here. After selecting and going to AirTran because I thought they would be best poised for what is happening now, I have come to know and respect Delta. If there was a carrier that I would put at the top... it is Delta. You all are a great group... and I mean that.... General Lee and FlyDeltasJets... that means you guys.

I just think that your management could do better.. and quicker than they are doing. Go be #1. The market is ripe and ready for some innovation and you all are best poised for it as far as majors go... in my opinion. I do agree with your assessment that "if" all comes to fruition.. Delta will be a different animal... and one that can possibly co-exist with many others.

AirTran's success has been "somewhat" proportionately relative to Delta's success. That is changing.. for now.

 

[General Lee]

Ty,

Man, you are sooo cocky. It kills me. You really know it all, don't you? Everybody stand up and give this guy a hand!!! He thinks he knows it all. You say that Airtran has been expanding at a rate of 25% per year at our FORTRESS hub, right? With what gates? Wrong. You have expanded 100% at Flint. Yippie. And we will be getting some 100 seaters to combat your 717's--except our RJs will still compete with you on the Flint-ATL runs... And I love the point you try to make saying "what we are doing isn't working." Hey, we had a profitable summer operationally. We made money in June. What is hurting us is our debt load, and that will take a while to fix, and we know that. We are the only Major to think outside the box and actually do something about you and the other LCC's---we created a brand that will combat Jetblue primarily and you a little on the East Coast flying. No one else has even tried something to fight you, and we still have a premium product in mainline, even though the flight attendants are a little older. We have a better frequent flyer program with NW/CO onboard. That is the truth. You need to quit being so jealous. You hate it when you see those DL 777's, don't you? You do, I knew it. Ok bud, time for you to simmer down. I like your ANALYSIS of Song. You don't think it will work as a LCC.......Hmmmmm. Well, we better shut it down now. Let's lay off everybody becasue TY says it WILL FAIL. What? The loads are better than expected---77% in July---and is expected to get better in the cold winter and when the entertainment systems actually are put in eventually. Your 717's competing up and down the east coast will not compare----no entertainment except your inflight magazine. Some of the Song procedures may eventually go over to mainline, but not everything. So, you had business experience before you started flying right? Managing a Quiznos doesn't count. I think the mangagement at our Airline knows a little bit more than you do, even if they are taking huge bonuses. But, you know better. What a joke. I am glad you can see into the future. Airtran will be the only airline left except the new Braniff flying old DC-9s between Houston and Hartford. Whatever man, I have to get some sleep---except I have laughed so much I don't think I can do it. Good night buddy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

No, General Ree, man with hole in pants feel cocky all day. No hole in my pants; I just call 'em like I see 'em.

You say that Airtran has been expanding at a rate of 25% per year at our FORTRESS hub, right? With what gates?

Well, Chief, those are the growth numbers. When I started here about 21 months ago, we had 360 flights a day . . . now we have 500 . . . so, you do the math. Sure, some are point-to-point, and some are out of BWI, but you know what? The point isn;t how many gates or flights at ATL, it is how many flights we have added that compete against you . . . if we don't go through ATL, it's even better! Lower cost, direct flights, less delays . . . . Duh! Geez, I wish all the "Directs" we have added went through ATL . . . . not!


And we will be getting some 100 seaters to combat your 717's-

OK . . . . bring 'em on. What do you really think they will do that the 7-0 seaters and the MD80's and the B737's can;t do? Give you the expense of a whole 'nother training program, another trainign event, and another aircraft type to add to your mess? Have at it. Put your name in for it.


Quit being so jealous. You hate it when you see those DL 777's, don't you? You do, I knew it.

Uh, what is this? Nursery school. Yeah, I salivate when I see some crusty old dude taxiing at about 4 KTS down "L", flatulating uncontrollably, while the FO nervously scans the seniority list, hoping like hell that it's not his turn to put on the orange apron and go "defend the profession" . Yeah, I'm jealous as hell. Where do i sign up?

Ok bud, time for you to simmer down. I like your ANALYSIS of Song. You don't think it will work.......Hmmmmm. Well, we better shut it down now. Let's lay off everybody becasue TY says it WILL FAIL. What? The loads are better than expected---77% in July---and is expected to get better in the cold winter and when the entertainment systems actually are put in eventually.

That's nice. Loads are one side of the equation . . . but this is a business, not a charity. Yeah, I know, Mama Delta won't tell us how much this venture has lost so far . . ."Let's put some lipstick on this pig" . . . . . .



Your 717's competing up and down the east coast will not compare----no entertainment except your inflight magazine.

You just don;t get it, do you? Paying passengers aren;t finding what you guys are offering worth it these days. Entertainment is a plus for long haul, not short haul.

So, you had business experience before you started flying right? Managing a Quiznos doesn't count.

Ho, ho, that's pretty funny. I'll give you that.

I actually have quite abit of real business experinece- I know the difference between an Income Statement and a Balance Sheet, I'll tell you that.

I think the mangagement at our Airline knows a little bit more than you do,

Well, that trul;y remains to be seen. So far, I could probably do better throwing darts at a board. . . . no sh!t.


Airtran will be the only airline left except the new Braniff flying old DC-9s between Houston and Hartford.


Magic 8 Ball says "Ask me again later".

 

[Heavy Set]

Hey Ty,

Given your unbelievable financial and managerial prowess, you should absolutely run for governor of California!!!! Maybe Ryan will start Sacramento service to Atlanta and you could commute...

FL717,

I appreciate your comments. I do not work for Delta - I just enjoy reading General Lee's posts - that guy knows his stuff and he has ball$.........

 

[Ty Webb]

I would consider the CA governorship, but Arnold and I have a deal- I don't run for Governor, and he doesn't smush egocentric Delta pilots "like a bug" . . . if anything changes, though, you'll get a form letter hitting you up for a campaign contribution, I promise.

 

[FL717]

FL717,

I appreciate your comments. I do not work for Delta - I just enjoy reading General Lee's posts - that guy knows his stuff and he has ball$.........

I saw 727 in your profile and assumed you might be from Delta. My apologies. You are a regular interesting contributor and my comments to you still apply... and yes I agree that I enjoy General Lees insights and posts to this forum.

General Lee manages to come across to me differently than FlydeltasJets.. who recently retired from the Flightinfo forums for a skin disorder... a lack of thickness I believe.

Take care.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

I have to agree with opinion of ty's cockiness. Let me see, he/it started off in business field then did the whole corporate flying thing, interviewed at Midwest(turned down) at the same time interviewed at Airtran and got the job. How much does anyone want to bet that he/it would be ripping apart the lcc's if he got the midwest job. AirTran is one market rally away from bq. How many of the ever increasing near or in retirement citizens want to fly with the wife beater wearing, chain smoking, knees in the back of my neck, sailor mouthed, jerry springer, toothless pax's that they typically carry.

Why is it that I can fly almost any of the other lcc's, but when I fly airtran I feel like I need to shower as soon as I get home?

I have not run into a crew from FL that wasn't cool as shi*t, but at some point there has to be a tooth count on board. If it isn't above a typical grown american then we must be violating some type of security requirement.

 

[LearLove]

"AirTran is one market rally away from bq. How many of the ever increasing near or in retirement citizens want to fly with the wife beater wearing, chain smoking, knees in the back of my neck, sailor mouthed, jerry springer, toothless pax's that they typically carry"

I don't know anymore but my guess is price rules. For example my uncle has his own law firm and used to fly on US Air for years to his place in FL (from PHL) several times per month. Now he buys first class on airtran gets the same service in a bigger seat for a better $$$. It makes sence and I don't blame him. We can't compete anymore. If you can't beat 'em, join them, and I'm trying like heck.

However I did get the chance to spend alittle time in BWI last week for the first time since U pulled chocks from that place. Took a walk up to the Taco Bell where the whole place was U now its a mix of Airtran and AWA. Totally new breed of pax is all I can say. And on more than one pax I did see shopping bags in leu of luggage. Very interesting noises and smells too. O well guess it's America.

 

[AlbieF15]

Maybe I'm just to into Kharma, but I think bad-mouthing the passengers as being "low class" or "beneath" your current airlines clientelle only invites trouble.

The passengers you disdain so much have made tons of money for the LCCs, and kept pilots at several companies making 6 figure salaries.

The high brow customers abandoned the majors in droves when the market got tough, and now a bunch of pilots are doing other types of work.

Methinks the best approach would be to say "come try our airline. We've got great prices AND great service...and we'll get you there safely with a smile." The smart marketers out there will be kissing up to the customers who pay the bills...and Mr/Ms internet software salesperson who just paid $800 for a walk up ticket doesn't seem to be around anymore...

If you really hate those pax so much, then just mosey on over to FedEx or UPS with me...I haven't had a low class passenger yet.

 

[Ty Webb]

Albie, you are right on.

Also, in the nearly two years I have been here, I have seen amazing changes. I have sat next to many, many executives, small business owners, and lawyers flying on us.

Just the other day, I sat next to a retired Delta guy and his wife. Just retired off "the ER" (I take it that's one of the 767 variant). First time on board. didn;t want to take a chance non-revving (they were going to some function). I tried top see the flight through his eyes. Here's what he saw:

1) A full flight

2) When he got to the back of the plane, and found the overhead space full, he looked kind of agitated. A dead-heading pilot in the back who saw this offered to help him find a place for his bag (me).

3) Professional, friendly F/A's that did full service twice, not sat on their cans in the galley doing crossword puzzles.

4) A Captain that during a departure delay, set the brakes and offered to let people use the lavs and their cell phones to notify their families of the late arrival.

5) A clean, quiet B717

6) A 99.8% luggage handling record (consistently the second highest in the industry).

7) Me to keep him entertained (no extra charge).

I think he would probably be the first one to tell you AirTran naysayers that as long as you keep badmouthing AirTran and our passengers, you're only fiddling while Rome burns.

For the guy that thinks we're "one cycle ahead of bankruptcy"- you, sir, are an idiot. We have been making money during the worst of times, and as we get rid of the DC9 and enjoy the refinancing of our debt to Boeing, we continue to accumulate cash in the bank ($400 million unencumbered), and we only serve 44 cities in the country so far. While things beyond our control are a fact of life, don't expect us to be going away anytime soon.

 

[General Lee]

Ty,

You said your airline was having 25% growth at our FORTRESS hub--that is what you said. That is wrong. How could you? You don't have the number of gates to expand at that rate. You stated it wrong. Sure, your BWI numbers and Flint numbers are growing----good for you.

Smaller planes and shorter flights don't need entertainment? Tell that to jetblue and their new EMB-190s---I guess Neeleman is wrong in your eyes too. Man, you are perfect.

You don't think we could compete with 100 seaters on some of your flights? What? Ok.....We also have the flexibility to put a 70 seater or something larger on it if the need arises. You can throw Airwhisky on it I guess. The new birds would probably replace the older 737s, and Delta is working with the FAA to get a common type rating on several aircraft, and currently deciding on how to make a common cockpit in several airplanes--and they are doing this with Boeing. Over time, the training costs will go way down---and that is a fact. But, you neglected to think about that one.

And, you think you could do a better job managing Delta huh? Thank God that is not an option---Delta is not really like a Quiznos.(although we will probably be selling Quiznos sandwiches on Song eventually, and the pax will love it)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLB717]

?? ? ?

 

[General Lee]

FLB717,

Please excuse my venting, but Ty gets me going sometimes. He claimed that Airtran has been growing at a rate of 25% per year at our ATL "Fortress" hub as he calls it. If that were true, you would have 2 full terminals full of airplanes, which is not the case. There is no doubt that Airtran is expanding, and that is good for you. Then he claims to be an expert at business and claims he could do better than our managment with the daily operations of Delta. Something that he doesn't understand and may not have recognized is that Delta has been doing a good job of reorganizing airplanes on different routes. They have been moving airplanes around to fit capacity needs. Those 737-200's that used to fly Express are now being used to fly to cities that cannot handle an MD-88--like LEX to ATL or BTR to ATL. Those MD-88s are then moved to cities that maybe cannot be justified with 757 service, like PHX-ATL in the Summertime. Then those 757s are moved to Song to capitalize on the LCC craze. I think our management is doing a pretty good job, except those bonuses are a little to big when people are getting furloughed. Besides that, they are doing a good job. Thanks for letting me vent FLB717---have a good day.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Slight correction. LEX-ATL and BTR-ATL are former ASA routes that got too large for us to handle with CRJ's. Despite what some folks think, the flying has gone both ways.

Also, AI RSM's have increased 25% yearly. I bought my stock at $2.40 a share. It opened at $13.95 this morning. I know Delta pilots are not the best at percentages, so I will explain, that is a 581% gain. I just may be doing better than your much maligned management team at Delta.

Wonder when Mike Pinho is going to accuse me of "unethical behavior."