Airtran Union Board endorses TA w/ qulifications

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

This seems like a simple fix. Current book, plus COL for the past two years and a 15% pay raise.

 

[Lear70]

Being a military guy I am kind of new to this game but would someone please answer me these questions:

1) Can we demand that our union take a vote next week after we see full version, prior to wasting any money on roadshows? If so let's get the ball rollin'.

You could draft a resolution, but that's no guarantee that they'll do it and there's no other way to "force" the BOD to do anything short of recalling them which takes time.

2) How do we get the NC replaced now? Can someone start a signiture sheet in the crew room and get a certain number of signitures? What is the process?

You draft a resolution or pressure the BOD into doing it by threatening to recall THEM if they don't. Signature sheets help...

3) Will someone start the recall process for the BOD? I specifically asked MG (Dom. Rep) on Monday why they were voting on something before we had Q and A in writing. He shrugged his shoulders and played ignorant. Now I know is wasn't playing.

I'm already hearing the beginnings of that. Again, the recall process is lengthy and it's unlikely you'll get it completed before this thing goes to a vote which, now that it's officially been declared a T.A. by the MEC, is actually required by the RLA.

Recall these SOBs now. I am afraid to say it but the word collusion is starting to come to mind.

It's either that or complete ignorance (or incompetence).

The NC Chair at the very LEAST has to go, and the rest of the NC and BOD put on a VERY SHORT LEASH.

 

[DougCorp-9]

The following is a reason to vote no also. The block times in the bid packet are not based on the published schedule anymore but rather on the average block times in the past. So if you underblock(not that I ever do you will start eating away at future pay.


Flight Pay Computation
Core credit time-
Based upon median actual block times from same 3 month periods from the last year.
If no previous measurement (i.e. new destination) median actual flight planning numbers will be used until a measuring period exists.

 

[Max Powers]

Don't forget those pay rates at the 15 year scale will only benefit a very small few and most of them will be Midwest guys....I think this money would be used more effectively as per diem increase etc.....

 

[CitationLover]

It doesn't work like the CRJ, doesn't depend on brake position at all.

The main cabin door being closed is recorded by ACARS, regardless of brake position or other doors (service, cargo, etc). It's on the 2nd page of the OOOI screen (Out, Off, On, In).

When the aircraft exceeds a certain speed for a certain amount of time (I'm told it's >4 kts for >3 seconds but nothing in writing), you can see the "OUT" time appear on the ACARS (on the 1st page). This is what they want to use.

Problem is after the main door is closed, the slides have to be armed, cross-checked, flight attendants verify everyone is down, then you run the last of the before start checklist items and request a push clearance.

You're GOING to give up 2-3 minutes at least every single push and, in large cities or with some pax who insist on getting up to get something out of the overhead or a couple bags that show up late, you're going to hit 5 minutes pretty regularly.

Additionally, the flight attendants have a "me, too" clause in their contract. We give this up, and the flight attendants give it up, too, unwillingly and, in all likelihood, pretty unhappily.

It's a lose-lose proposition and does nothing but save the company money.

thank you for the info lear. what does the npa charge you guys for dues (1.95% at alpa)?

 

[CitationLover]

Being a military guy I am kind of new to this game but would someone please answer me these questions:

1) Can we demand that our union take a vote next week after we see full version, prior to wasting any money on roadshows? If so let's get the ball rollin'.

2) How do we get the NC replaced now? Can someone start a signiture sheet in the crew room and get a certain number of signitures? What is the process?

3) Will someone start the recall process for the BOD? I specifically asked MG (Dom. Rep) on Monday why they were voting on something before we had Q and A in writing. He shrugged his shoulders and played ignorant. Now I know is wasn't playing.

Recall these SOBs now. I am afraid to say it but the word collusion is starting to come to mind. I think the membership needs to hire a lawyer to take on our own people. The company has done it. They have split our pilot group. No one has any faith in our BOD or NC anymore.

Let's get the ball rolling on these issues now while we still have time to gain back all the leverage our incompetent BOD/NC has just given away.

if the npa uses roberts rules of order and it is built into their constitution and by laws like it is at alpa, you can use these to a good effect (as most elected leaders simply do not know them that well). you could use them in essence to run a meeting away from their published agenda's. but mostly have strength in numbers to obtain what you wish to accomplish.

 

[RadioClash]

I am afraid to say it but the word collusion is starting to come to mind.

I was thinking the same thing. This is way too fishy. Nobody could be stupid enough to agree to this thinking the pilot group would be happy about it. Throw in some type of under the table deal or whatever and well you know...

I am not a conspiracy theorist but this thing reeks of a morning growler.

 

[crashman]

So what is "market rate" for a first year FO?

Am I going to take a paycut to $38.50 for the remainder of my first year? AND not have the high-paying reserve language anymore either?

How the hell do I pay the mortgage?

Why am I taking a paycut when the company has been in the black for how many years now AND just placed an order for an additional 15 airplanes?

I may not be able to vote here, but help me out guys!

 

[newnan]

Crashman,

Fill out KG's survey that was in your mailbox. There is a question on there about what you think of management. Answer that and your voice will be heard (at least a little).

The senior Capts. that throw junior guys under the bus should be put on a list so everyone knows who they are. There could be a running tally on BD's website.

 

[cl65capt]

So what is "market rate" for a first year FO?

Am I going to take a paycut to $38.50 for the remainder of my first year? AND not have the high-paying reserve language anymore either?

How the hell do I pay the mortgage?

Why am I taking a paycut when the company has been in the black for how many years now AND just placed an order for an additional 15 airplanes?

I may not be able to vote here, but help me out guys!

I thought first year pay stayed the same. If what you say is true there is yet another reason to vote no. Do we really need a bunch of road shows? Cant we just vote no now?

 

[LUalum]

NPA pilot conference call tonight 24th at 7pm est, number on the NPA site. Hoping for a heated discussion.

 

[crashman]

I thought first year pay stayed the same. If what you say is true there is yet another reason to vote no. Do we really need a bunch of road shows? Cant we just vote no now?

I haven't seen if first year pay for existing guys is locked or not. I'm just going by what I have managed to read on the TA page at first glance.

 

[gt1900]

Fo pay stays the same...

 

[Ace McCoy]

Still need help

I'm posting this two threads because I'm so confused...

Does anyone out there have any ideas why the NPA agreed to so many concessions in this TA with basically nothing in return? I can't find one giveback that the NPA can say "well at least we got X back for the pilots"

For instance we gave up the door time in return for what? Gave up retiree medical for what? And the list goes on.

We are not in bankruptcy or on the verge of a strike so there seems no reason to me that the NC should even entertain stuff that is worse than current book.

That is my main problem. Why was there so many givebacks for no reason? I would have been completely fine with current book and 15-25% raises across the board.

 

[fuzzy077]

Holy crap

Guys...I've been on rsv as a captain for a year now with another year to go. Please dont vote for this crap. These new rsv rules will make our lives a living hell, not to mention the enormous paycut. Pass it on.

 

[The Victors]

If we can agree that swa or better is what everyone should be shooting for contract wise ( and I'm not trying to start a swa vs the world war thread) this TA is a joke. I believe reserves at swa get a minimum of 15 days off and 90 hrs. pay min. at $48. If they pick up extra time, that time is at 2nd year pay. And the pay scales are way higher. AGAIN, not trying to start a swa vs airtran bennie war thread, but I think we can agree that these are the things that every airline should be striving for, not some take it up the rear, consessionary contract.

 

[DairyAir]

Back at my previous life our union sold us a bill of goods to try and keep the United flying. We were completely hoodwinked by our MEC into voting for it and I'll be dammned if I will let it happen again. The scope issue alone is enough to for a resounding no vote from me. After reading through these posts, as I have yet to see the power point or the actual TA, it sounds much worse than I originally thought.

We believed our MEC at the roadshows and lost huge at Air Willy, read the fine print. We should not be voting on a concessionary contract period, and this sure sounds like one. What is one good thing about it? The only reason I can see for the BOD approving this giant turd sandwich is maybe hoping for a resounding 80-90% no vote that will tell the management that we will not settle for a mediocre deal.

VOTE NO...NO...NO...NO...NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Scope is a deal breaker on its own. Anything over 50 seats must be flown by us. Period!

Giving up 4 hour min day for 4.5 average? NO

Changing pay from doors closed to rolling? NO

Computation of pay based on average flown same three month priod in year prior versus scheduled? NO

Loss of Emergency Sick Bank? NO

Reserve overhaul? NO

Training section? NO

12 hour day gone? NO

Addition of 15 year pay scale? NO

These are just a few that come to mind. And all of that for what? A pay raise that almost keeps up with inflation. I get that this is a give and take and with the exception of section 1 (non negotiable), I might be willing to give on the other things if their was anything to take.

Depressingly, I was just speaking to a 9 year captain who was trying to sell me on how this mgt. team has kept every promise that it has made to the pilot group and how we should just trust them on the scope thing. I am just being paranoid he said. He was planning on voting yes. Bums me out.

 

[FIREMAN]

Let’s do the time warp again”
It’s 20“01 allover again with the same cast of buffoons.

 

[Lear70]

That's great to hear, Dairy. Our ranks have been primarily filled the last 2-4 years by Regional CA's who have been through all this before and lived a Regional lifestyle. I don't think they want to go back and hopefully remember the lessons learned from their past.

To all the new guys and the reserve CA's, having just finished almost a year of reserve (bad timing and a refusal to fly CDO's), I will NOT vote yes for a contract with those give-backs in pay unless the pay raise in Section 4 COMPLETELY offsets it, and I know quite a few guys who feel the same way.

There's no WAY I'll vote yes with the majority of the work rule concessions, REGARDLESS of Section 4 rates, and neither will most other pilots because they have to live with them, too.

Just spread the word with everyone you fly with and come in contact with that current book beats this T.A., so simply vote NO.