AirTran TA2

[ualdriver]

...Hey UAL...how long ya been with UAL...what'cha flyin...had a really cool guy jump from PNS-ATL on his way to ORD...spent 98-01 workin/livin in Chicago buildin a dispatch for a coupla airplanes when I was in the military...learned a TON about airline issues...and way past TA issues...as a blue collar dude who works his arsz off...what is your unadultered view of what you see on the string...okay, make it...adultered...I had some great times working with yer best dispatchers...went thru the 757 Capt's course too at TK...just wondering about yer outside views...cheers!

I don't think I'm qualified to comment on their TA! I barely know my own contract. I'm just glad to see the Airtran guys raising the bar. I know it will be a heck of a lot easier for the UAL group to raise it ourselves (hopefully!) when the guys at Airtran, American, Alaska, and Continental have already set a precedent for us to reach (hopefully).

I guess the question down the road will become- will our anticipated gains be sustainable? Can the industry support these higher wages at the carriers mentioned above (and the others that will follow shortly thereafter) if we have other airlines, particularly the non-union ones (JetBlue, Virgin, Allegiant, Skybus, etc.) rapidly growing and significantly undercutting us? It's doubtful that any of those non-union carriers (and the ineveitable copy cat airlines still on the MBA's spreadsheets) will do much to come up to whatever bar is set by the rest of us. Will a strong economy and maybe even a decline in the overall supply of pilots be strong enough to overcome Age 65 and the new ultra low cost LCC $60-95/hr. Airbus Captains? Are we just setting ourselves up for the same situation that existed in the early 2000's where we had a two-tiered airline pilot pay scale (legacy and LCC) that will ultimately collapse the higher payscale when a catalyst like a failing economy comes into play? We'll see.

 

[Spidey]

I don't think I'm qualified to comment on their TA! I barely know my own contract. I'm just glad to see the Airtran guys raising the bar. I know it will be a heck of a lot easier for the UAL group to raise it ourselves (hopefully!) when the guys at Airtran, American, Alaska, and Continental have already set a precedent for us to reach (hopefully).

I guess the question down the road will become- will our anticipated gains be sustainable? Can the industry support these higher wages at the carriers mentioned above (and the others that will follow shortly thereafter) if we have other airlines, particularly the non-union ones (JetBlue, Virgin, Allegiant, Skybus, etc.) rapidly growing and significantly undercutting us? It's doubtful that any of those non-union carriers (and the ineveitable copy cat airlines still on the MBA's spreadsheets) will do much to come up to whatever bar is set by the rest of us. Will a strong economy and maybe even a decline in the overall supply of pilots be strong enough to overcome Age 65 and the new ultra low cost LCC $60-95/hr. Airbus Captains? Are we just setting ourselves up for the same situation that existed in the early 2000's where we had a two-tiered airline pilot pay scale (legacy and LCC) that will ultimately collapse the higher payscale when a catalyst like a failing economy comes into play? We'll see.

Thanks, good questions that loom on the horizon...good luck!

 

[Lear70]

Rumor control:

No, I have not been fired.

Yes, I have been improperly removed from all flying with a MEDICAL leave tag, even though I had my return-to-work physical with THEIR doctor per Sec 15 on 30-August and was returned to duty. Additionally, they have illegally withheld my paycheck with no explanation, despite several emails and phone calls.

Yes, the Association is working on it, but the company has up to the 27th to make a decision. They have not formally charged me with anything, so I'm not suspended or "on leave pending discipline".

The long and short of it is that, 48 hours prior to me being returned to work and almost a MONTH after my initial injury (25 days), the company's private investigator took pictures of me changing my tire and spraying a pulley with a spray can of lubricant for about 20 seconds. My shoulder was still sore and ached a little, but I wasn't an invalid and 48 hours later their doctor pronounced me fit to fly.

Same idea as you getting a 48 hour flu bug on a Sunday. Your next trip is the NEXT Sunday. You call out sick, 48 hours later the bug has passed, 48 hours after that you're re-hydrated, feeling OK, and mowing your lawn. Should you be sitting in bed for 7 full days until you fly again, or do you think it's reasonable that you might recover a day or two before the next scheduled trip?

All the doctors and physical therapists were THEIR choosing and there's nothing from them that indicates their was any falsification or anything that warrants a level of suspicion enough to have a private investigator violating my privacy. It's obviously retaliatory from my work killing this T.A., helping the recall, and trying to organize the pilot group. I'm certain the calls for me to run for office had more than a little to do with it as well.

The company is spreading this information but neglecting to tell you the timeline of how close it was to me being pronounced "fit for unrestricted duty" by THEIR doctor and the rumors are flying.

The company has up to 30 days from when they could have "reasonably been expected to know of the issue" to formally respond. It's interesting to note that the nomination period for NPA president closes 48 hours prior to this deadline. I may hear back today, I might not hear back until the 27th.

I'm exploring my legal options outside of the NPA and have been in touch with a major law firm who handles these types of labor issues - I have an appointment with them later this week.

I'm extremely disappointed that the company is choosing to pursue something so obviously baseless just to instill fear and intimidate, and it will put my family in severe hardship if I have to spend 4-12 months without a job in the grievance process, but if we don't have our principles, what do we have? I will never apologize for trying to maintain the pay and quality of life for our pilots, and I will fight, as necessary, to preserve the level of pay, benefits, and work rules that we currently enjoy, both for myself and my fellow employees.

Let your coworkers know the truth along with spreading the word on the T.A.

As Mulder always said: "The truth is out there."

 

[BoilerUP]

I'd be absolutely, 100% proud to be a part of any pilot group that includes Lear70.

His efforts and sacrifices should not only put other pilot groups on notice, but hopefully will inspire other pilots in those groups to become advocates themselves.

 

[Ty Webb]

We're all with you, Lear.

The Company's behavior in this regard is cowardly and shameful.

If they fire you, I'm going to press the winner of the coming election to hire you either as a Consultant to the NC or as an actual Negotiator . . . and why not? You're more knowledgeable about this Contract than any of the BOD or the staff attorneys.

There is nothing preventing you from performing this function, and it would be sweet irony if the Company found themselves back at the table with you, but without you being constrained by being an employee.

.

 

[DairyAir]

Hey Lear

Flew yesterday and the captain said he had talked to Floy and he mentioned that a first Officer had been fired for allegedly rotating tires on his car while on medical leave with a shoulder injury. The captain sounded like he was on the company's side. I thought it might be you so I set him straight on the whole story as well as made him read the TA2 rebuttal as well as the TA1 rebuttal start to finish before he made his judgement. He changed his mind.

It is sad that the company is resorting to these kinds of strongarm practices and I fear what lies ahead. We as a pilot group now more than ever need to stand together and get what we deserve.

It does not stop at you Lear another pilot a captain got fired for writing up too many planes in the last few months, I guess his average shot up and that was just not okay for someone to write up something. I believe there were alot of writeups for dirty windows or something. So clean the windows and get on with it. We'll see how this one turns out.

Anyway just thought everyone should know how the chief pilots office is spinning this thing with our man Lear and to stick up for him on the line.

DA

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas Guys,

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Lear.

Lear's situation, while aborrant, is typical for companies in heated negotiations.

It's known as "taking hostages", and you can bet the company will used Lear's situation as barganing leverage if the TA fails.

If the TA does fail, you can bet your company will be looking for many more. Best advice is to play the straight and narrow and keep copious records of each and every situation.

Nu

 

[craigdash8]

Listen up, NPA! Everybody on the seniority list needs to know about this.

Lear 70 knows what a contract is supposed to look like and he is trying to educate others here who have never seen one. Our management has validated my point by harassing him because they are afraid of him and his knowledge. The last thing anyone in MGT wants is for someone to open the eyes of the masses here about just how bad our CBA and this ridiculous TA are.

NPA, you should direct everyone to Lear's site so they can see a real objective and educated view of our current TA and make it common knowledge that MGT doesn't want them to know what is really going on at the table. There is no better way to protect him from this transparent attack.

Unbelievable.

C.

"the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

 

[mnboyev]

Wow..... bums me out... not surprised at all... Ya got to be teflon if your gonna fight.....Y'all know that !!

They fired the Hotel fella for just trying to improve our Hotel standards... He got a little too 'vocal' and WHACK.....Hmmm....

Who's next.... The flogging will continue until we cave in... I think it just solidifies our resolve..

Oh... it is believable.... standard practice... I wish they spent the same kind of attention on fixing some our operational problems...

What ever happened to the PAB? (Pilot Advisory Board) Have'nt heard or seen them do anything? Maybe it never came to be?

 

[cl65capt]

Is it time start printing some "Free RM" stickers?

 

[Uppercrust]

:laugh:

Wow..... bums me out... not surprised at all... Ya got to be teflon if your gonna fight.....Y'all know that !!

They fired the Hotel fella for just trying to improve our Hotel standards... He got a little too 'vocal' and WHACK.....Hmmm....

Who's next.... The flogging will continue until we cave in... I think it just solidifies our resolve..

Oh... it is believable.... standard practice... I wish they spent the same kind of attention on fixing some our operational problems...

What ever happened to the PAB? (Pilot Advisory Board) Have'nt heard or seen them do anything? Maybe it never came to be?

Maybe you guys should hold some informational picketing down here. See link below for suggested picketing areas. Suggest Southern Breeze as a starting point for the march ending at Elliots Ct!
:laugh: :laugh:

http://maps.yahoo.com/broadband#mvt... 3286&trf=0&lon=-81.499393&lat=28.43477&mag=3http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?addr=8942+Elliotts+Ct&city=Orlando&state=FL&zip=32836-5029

 

[Ty Webb]

:laugh:

Maybe you guys should hold some informational picketing down here. See link below for suggested picketing areas. Suggest Southern Breeze as a starting point for the march ending at Elliots Ct!
:laugh: :laugh:

Damm, Uppercrud, you ain't so bad, after all . . . . after looking at the Orange County tax assessor's website, I think there are a few other houses that we should visit, if and when it comes down to it. Thanks for the idea.

I was surprised to see that our "Fearless Leader" has a primary residence that is smaller and less expensive than ol' Line Swine Ty Webb's primary residence . . . . now, that's really funny. No wonder he is always trying to "lower our expectations" . . . .

 

[Uppercrust]

Damm, Uppercrud, you ain't so bad, after all . . . . after looking at the Orange County tax assessor's website, I think there are a few other houses along that route that we should visit. Thanks for the idea.

I was surprised to see that our "Fearless Leader" has a primary residence that is smaller and less expensive than ol' Line Swine Ty Webb's primary residence . . . . now, that's really funny. Maybe he should have kept that first wife afterall . . . .

No problema Ty Guy Webb. I am sorry about Lear 70 and all the harrasement.

Funny how all your scum bag leaders were all followers of Lorenzo and they all live in the exact same area, per the Orange Appraisal.

I wish you guys the best and I would not take the kinda treatment Lear 70 is taking. Gloves off.

 

[wood pecker]

Hey Lear, if they fire you for actually displaying leadership qualities and wanting the best, then you should be happy you only wasted 1.5 years here. They would probaly try to screw you on a check ride down the road anyway. They did however validate your effort, your famous now, and I think you will serve a valuable position in the future of the NPA. Now I know why AP chose the cash option(allegedly) vs having a PI follow him.
Atleast the PI did not post you on the internet nude doing the limbo w/ a drink in each hand, or maybe thats next. Good luck and advise if donations will be needed in the future. Are PIs going after sick calls next?

 

[Relic01]

Lear, which you the best. Question though about the TA... Why does the hourly compensation max out to 15 or more years from 12 years where it stands now? I have not heard much chat about that.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, which you the best. Question though about the TA... Why does the hourly compensation max out to 15 or more years from 12 years where it stands now? I have not heard much chat about that.

They ran CA pay rates out to 15 years and F/O rates out to 12 in the T.A.

Have no idea why the F/O longevity scale went that far out; the further out it goes, the further it shows a disparity between us and every other major out there and the odds of being a 12 year F/O here are pretty slim.

The CA rates went to 15 years in order to get the pay numbers up. There's a small group of guys (about 5% of the seniority list) who will be hitting their 12 year cap pretty soon under the current Agreement. When they do, they'll stop getting raises every year and, effectively, be making less each year as inflation makes the dollar worth less. THIS is why it's SO important for the yearly increase in each longevity column be AT LEAST equal to inflation. A 5 year CA at DOS +1 shouldn't make less, in today's dollars than a 5 year CA does at DOS (Date of Signing).

What they SHOULD have done was take all that extra money from years 13-15 and just lumped it all into years 10-12. All it does is dilute the yearly earnings across the earlier years, and the company hopes no one will stick around that long.

One of the reasons our pilot CASM is so low is because of how relatively junior our pilot group is. Over 70% of the pilots here have less than 5 years seniority, CA's included. Almost 90% of the pilots here have less than 10 years seniority. That's a more junior overall pilot group than even jetBlue, much less anyone else, which makes us the cheapest labor group of any major airline. Most of us are AT LEAST a decade away from seeing that max pay scale, so it cost the company very little to stretch it out like that, but it looks really good on paper, especially in the media.

Even if we obtained pay increases of 20%, we'd STILL be the cheapest pilot labor group of any major airline, which means we'd STILL enjoy a competitive advantage over our competitors.

Just food for thought.

Thanks for asking, and thanks for everyone's support!

 

[Max Eaper]

Here's something for the senior "Oh, that won't affect me" pukes. My capt. is getting close to retirement and has 10 weeks of vacation banked. He can't find any language concerning or protecting his banked vacation in the newest TA. He also hasn't gotten a satisfatory response from his conversations with the NPA. I told him if it's not in writing then it's not protected. Is this another oversight by our crackerjack NC? VOTE NO!