Airtran Scheduling cost company millions

[Ty Webb]

..Atlanta is a cluster f*ck and it doesn't matter if you're Delta or AirTran, you will have holds for gates, you will have a ton of diversions for bad wx, you will have a ton of rampers call out sick....nature of the beast for the world's busiest airport in my opinion....

Copy Dat, Copy Dat!

 

[jehtplane]

This is why I suggest that some crews come up to C and D towers on a bad night and see the BS we go through. Gates are a huge issue. Beyond the gates we have on C and the few on D we use all the time, we have to call EVERY day to TBI and ask which ones we can use. When we call for E gates as well, it's normally "I don't have anything for you" before we even speak a word. I think the flight scheduling is to blame because they expect that putting 2005 departures all over the place with scheduled 2010 arrivals won't cause problems and before you know it, a plane has called for mx, got a hold for late pax, etc....and when pilots get on the ground for an occupied gate and start making suggestions about this E gate or D7 or D11(because we use it during the day as one guy said to me)...it's frustrating because we make 1000000 phone calls a day about what we can and can't use....Midwest won't let us use D7 from this time to this time...or Spirit needs D9 now or Northwest wants D11a at this time and this time but you can have it for 30 min for ONE freakin turn....it's a ton of politics and begging going on

Ramp will have some staffing issues at times, especially on the weekends.....and in terms of other airlines not holding out, I disagree and say this isn't true. ASA Ops in C-tower is a mess at times...and that's on good days. One of their problems is they never call the feds to hold planes off the ramp and before you know there's 12 RJ's on ramp 4. Same thing with Delta on ramp 3...you get a couple 75's or a 767 and a bunch of ERJ's and CRJ's holding for spots and it's a mess...I see this 5 days a week...

The ramp controllers get fed up with them quickly. We try to be proactive when there is bad weather and use the fed tower phone to advise them of our gate situation when our planes land so that we don't have a congested ramp, our planes in gates at the time won't be blocked when they're ready to push and then we can either ACARS or SELCAL an a/c holding for a gate to tell him he can start moving over.

And as for Eagle's comments, I'm sorry if this began to "waste away on OPs and dispatch".....I was just trying to give some perspective from my area of work....which does somewhat relate to scheduling of flight crews.

So overall, it's not poor planning on our part all the time...it's just a million factors coming together all at once causing a traffic jam....we bust our a$$ everyday to set up gates, get pax to their flights, make sure planes are getting catered, etc,etc...Atlanta is a cluster f*ck and it doesn't matter if you're Delta or AirTran, you will have holds for gates, you will have a ton of diversions for bad wx, you will have a ton of rampers call out sick....nature of the beast for the world's busiest airport in my opinion....

We waited for a gate for 1 hour and 45 minutes on saturday night. I spent 8 years at ASA and NEVER had to wait that long.
On another IROP night about 2 weeks ago, me and my Captain sat on our plane at a gate for 3.5 hours waiting on our FA's who were stuck at an outstation on a ground stop while planes were all over the place waiting for gates. We had no pax on board just an empty plane taking up a gate.

 

[Clyde Frog]

On another IROP night about 2 weeks ago, me and my Captain sat on our plane at a gate for 3.5 hours waiting on our FA's who were stuck at an outstation on a ground stop whilWe had no pax on board just an empty plane taking up a gate.

And you sat on the plane? Something wrong with the crew lounge?

 

[jehtplane]

And you sat on the plane? Something wrong with the crew lounge?

What is so great about the crew lounge? CNN that constantly repeats itself or the war stories. No thanks I will take peace and quiet all day long and twice on sunday

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Most likely the schedulers are being told how to schedule crews with a computer program (crew sodomizer) which as I understand will run a few solutions in which the scheduler can choose from. The final result will screw you and about 30 other pilots. When you ask em about why they are doing it that way they shut you down and tell you to suck-it-up and fly.

What really upsets me is when you get re-routed in a pilot base... ah, dah ... isn't this a pilot base. Bottom line is it saves the company money but you Joe pilot make little for the grief.

RJ

One of those solutions always involves the last day of your pairing, when of course you are commuting home ...

 

[SkiFishFly]

This is why I suggest that some crews come up to C and D towers on a bad night and see the BS we go through. Gates are a huge issue. Beyond the gates we have on C and the few on D we use all the time, we have to call EVERY day to TBI and ask which ones we can use. When we call for E gates as well, it's normally "I don't have anything for you" before we even speak a word. I think the flight scheduling is to blame because they expect that putting 2005 departures all over the place with scheduled 2010 arrivals won't cause problems and before you know it, a plane has called for mx, got a hold for late pax, etc....and when pilots get on the ground for an occupied gate and start making suggestions about this E gate or D7 or D11(because we use it during the day as one guy said to me)...it's frustrating because we make 1000000 phone calls a day about what we can and can't use....Midwest won't let us use D7 from this time to this time...or Spirit needs D9 now or Northwest wants D11a at this time and this time but you can have it for 30 min for ONE freakin turn....it's a ton of politics and begging going on

Ramp will have some staffing issues at times, especially on the weekends.....and in terms of other airlines not holding out, I disagree and say this isn't true. ASA Ops in C-tower is a mess at times...and that's on good days. One of their problems is they never call the feds to hold planes off the ramp and before you know there's 12 RJ's on ramp 4. Same thing with Delta on ramp 3...you get a couple 75's or a 767 and a bunch of ERJ's and CRJ's holding for spots and it's a mess...I see this 5 days a week...

The ramp controllers get fed up with them quickly. We try to be proactive when there is bad weather and use the fed tower phone to advise them of our gate situation when our planes land so that we don't have a congested ramp, our planes in gates at the time won't be blocked when they're ready to push and then we can either ACARS or SELCAL an a/c holding for a gate to tell him he can start moving over.

And as for Eagle's comments, I'm sorry if this began to "waste away on OPs and dispatch".....I was just trying to give some perspective from my area of work....which does somewhat relate to scheduling of flight crews.

So overall, it's not poor planning on our part all the time...it's just a million factors coming together all at once causing a traffic jam....we bust our a$$ everyday to set up gates, get pax to their flights, make sure planes are getting catered, etc,etc...Atlanta is a cluster f*ck and it doesn't matter if you're Delta or AirTran, you will have holds for gates, you will have a ton of diversions for bad wx, you will have a ton of rampers call out sick....nature of the beast for the world's busiest airport in my opinion....

Good points. I'm sure you get plenty of us pilots who have a better idea. I know sometimes I am one of them.

From my perspective we do seem awfully reluctant to change a gate - even if it means only moving down (or over) 1 or 2 gates. This is even true in other stations at times (where it really makes no sense to be awaiting a gate when there is an empty one right in front of us).

We also seem to often have our heads in the sand when it comes to realizing the weather is about to slow things waaay down. We seem slow to react and have our jets carry more fuel so we can hold longer rather than divert.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Clr4-

No disrespect to those of you that are professional about your jobs. I have witnessed crew schedulers at 2 major US carriers, 3 regional US carriers and 1 international carrier...this is where I get my opinion.

 

[md83drvr]

On Saturday night I was going to HOU. Got to the gate, board says Moline. I ask the agent where is HOU going out of. Agent says "TPA is on the gate waiting on a front end crew, then Moline, then PBI, then HOU." All the aircraft were on the ground waiting on the gate. Most of the aircraft in the gates were waiting on crews that were holding out for gates....do we see the problem here?

 

[UALX727]

Citrus531,

Hey, I appreciate all that you guys do up there.

I agree with Ty. I believe ramp ops have improved quite a bit from what they were a few years ago....seems like we were always waiting on parking due to no rampers in position at the gate when we pulled up......I've always wondered....is this due to a lack of staffing or simply lack of motivation? Probably a combo maybe, but whoever got it turned around did a great job.

Anyway, a little off topic, sometimes I wonder why we are dispatched the way we are....for example, recently filed for FL 360 going from BWI to Atl...we asked for and went on up to 400 and saved .3% on the gas....figured around 219 pounds 32 gallons of gas...at 3.50 per gallon is 114 bucks.

That's not a whole lot, but when you consider all of our flights every day, it probably adds up to millions in a short time.....I have always wondered why management doesn't view the pilots as their allies instead of their foes. A motivated pilot group can work wonders for the bottom line. It really sucks we have this relationship with them, and I wish it wasn't this way.

I try my best every time I fly to save as much as I can in fuel costs. This mainly comes from self-preservation...I don't want AirTran to go out of business..... However, I know there are guys out there who aren't as receptive to the fuel savings initiatives, mainly due to recent pilot-management relations...contract talks, firings or furloughs, whatever you want to call it.

I remember reading in the paper an AirTran V.P. saying "pilots like to think they are special, they are not." ( can't remember exact quote, something along those lines).

I think that statement doesn't take into consideration all that the pilots do every day that is "unseen" to help the bottom line...(like saving the 32 gallons of gas on our own initiative.)

Anyway, just some ramblings of a frustrated AirTran Captain that wishes we had better pilot/management relations....sometime I just think.."why does it have to be like this..."

 

[clr4theapch]

It is ashame.. from my perspective in several SOC's I hear crew sched calling pilots and F/a baby's etc.. some dispatchers dont like to get bit on both ends so they hold their stance on a matter of a fuel etc.. then I see stuff from managament like was noted above.. it makes me sick.. we are supposed to be some of the luckiest people on earth, getting paid to work in the field we love.. I think it's lost that loving feeling... ashame..

As to Atlanta, I have not been there other than a connecting flight, what happened to the regional terminal expansion to releave the C & D gates of ASA? wasn't that the plan a few years ago?.

I remember when I worked at ASA, back when Airtran was really starting to grow, how the airport and some accused, the tower of giving Delta priority on everything there in ATL.. does this still happen today? how many DAL flights are waiting for gates to open, or holding to land? I would bet none..

 

[Clyde Frog]

I remember reading in the paper an AirTran V.P. saying "pilots like to think they are special, they are not." ( can't remember exact quote, something along those lines).

I think that statement doesn't take into consideration all that the pilots do every day that is "unseen" to help the bottom line...(like saving the 32 gallons of gas on our own initiative.)

.."

"Pilots like to think they're special people, they're not. Their contribution to the success of AirTran is no greater than that of anyone else"- Steve Kolski, VP, flight Ops, AirTran Airways, as quoted by the Atlanta Journal Constitution.