Airtran recalls all furloughed today

[fam62c]

Does anybody know if (and how many) there are pilots who bypassed the recalls and, if so, when do they need to make a decision to either come back or surrender recall rights? Also, has anybody heard about any potential new-hire classes from the pool?

Thanks, I'm glad to see pilots getting their jobs back. There's way too many of us out of work right now so I hope that with cheap fuel some of the other carriers start bringing some people back and increasing their aircraft utilization. Best of luck to everybody.

 

[pilotss]

Congrats Airtranners

 

[bigboeings]

Thats good news, I thought they were all Fired, not furloughed.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Does anybody know if (and how many) there are pilots who bypassed the recalls and, if so, when do they need to make a decision to either come back or surrender recall rights? Also, has anybody heard about any potential new-hire classes from the pool?

Thanks, I'm glad to see pilots getting their jobs back. There's way too many of us out of work right now so I hope that with cheap fuel some of the other carriers start bringing some people back and increasing their aircraft utilization. Best of luck to everybody.

I have heard the recall % varied. The first batch was 75%. Heard the next group, only a little over 60% even called back to say they were or were not going to accept the recall. I do not know how many actually accepted. But I have heard the company was caught off guard by the number not returning on such a short furlough (HMMM.... you threaten to fire us and there might be some animosity?) When i went through recurrent I ran into two non furloughed guys who were just waiting for new jobs(non flying) to start before they quit. I have even heard rumors of hiring, probably dependent on how many accept recall. Welcome back to those who come back.

 

[shuttlepilot]

I just hate to see mentioned that they are needed for the summer schedule... So are you getting furloughed again in fall?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Anything is possible.

 

[Colonel Savage]

I have heard the recall % varied. The first batch was 75%. Heard the next group, only a little over 60% even called back to say they were or were not going to accept the recall. I do not know how many actually accepted...

So 75% accepted recall out of the first round, then something less than 60% accepted from the second round, so at least a third took a pass. Is that about right? Does a pilot get more than one bypass?

Post 9-11 recall rates were lower than that due to contract degregation and pilots finding jobs they wanted to keep. In some cases 20-25% acceptance rates for legacies occurred, the lowest by far in history, which averaged 80-90% acceptance prior to 9/11.

 

[contrail67]

No offense but this is the Majors forum.

your comments are as stupid as you look in your picture...go away little boy.

 

[maxblast72]

Wow....classic 'knee-jerk' furlough, huh?

I don't know if I would call it "knee-jerk". Jet A was over $4/gallon, we were bleeding cash during our traditionally most profitable season, credit card companies were getting restless and increasing holdback percentages, and some people were saying oil was going to $200/barrel. Even the great Southwest was still locking up additional 2009 hedges during last summer.

Thankfully, Jet A is low enough to allow us to increase utilization and get everyone back on the property. Lets hope the Milwaukee and Caribbean flying Fornaro mentioned at the Raymond James conference today produce strong enough revenue that we decide to do some growing prior to 2011.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

So 75% accepted recall out of the first round, then something less than 60% accepted from the second round, so at least a third took a pass. Is that about right? Does a pilot get more than one bypass?

Post 9-11 recall rates were lower than that due to contract degregation and pilots finding jobs they wanted to keep. In some cases 20-25% acceptance rates for legacies occurred, the lowest by far in history, which averaged 80-90% acceptance prior to 9/11.

But most of our guys were only out for 4 months. Those guys were out for 4 years.

 

[Hamburger]

Glad to hear the good news.

 

[Lear70]

There will probably be quite a few that bypass.

IF they found jobs flying other places, in all likelihood, they were required to sign training contracts. They may elect to stay and finish out their contract before rerturning or at least finishing as much of it as they can to minimize the expense.

Some may not return at all - if they found a nice corporate gig local to their home and ended up home most nights, they may find they like the lifestyle better if they have family. They also may not want to gamble on a busy summer just to get furloughed again in the late Fall... Kinda sounds like Sun Country's modus operandi.

Who knows, might actually end up HIRING a class or two by Spring.

 

[Colonel Savage]

There will probably be quite a few that bypass...Who knows, might actually end up HIRING a class or two by Spring.

What would have to happen for them to decide to hire again? Can they still decide to keep the two 737's they're planning on selling, or are they good as gone?

To go through the entire furloughed list to staff three airplanes must mean they're going to fly the heck out of them.

 

[Lear70]

I don't know, there's no telling how many pilots have training contracts which is the only way they can bypass if no one junior to them remains on furlough. It would likely have to be a substantial number, at least enough to have a hard time staffing and enough to run a class, but if they do hire, be very, very careful.

1. After the peak summer season, you could find yourself furloughed... AirTran may be moving towards a Sun Country seasonal approach to staffing.

2. Instead of getting furloughed, you could be fired. You'd be probationary and AirTran just tried to fire the probationary pilots to get something they wanted. The union blinked. This time, MemRat will be in place and there won't be any blinking, no side letters without Member Ratification, so a new-hire could find themselves terminated 3-4 months after they got hired and there's nothing they could do about it except sue and wait.

3. There likely wouldn't be hiring for a LONG time to come after that, with no capacity increases planned for years. If you didn't get furloughed or fired, you'd get stuck on reserve for several years.

Management has made AirTran a horrible risk for new-hires. It can be a great place to work, and hopefully will be again someday, but they'll have to give the pilots a new contract and stop their antagonistic ways first...

 

[Browntothebone]

instructor dudette said:
Were you born a moron or did it evolve?

Gup

Instructor Dude says.... Mission accomplished!

 

[Browntothebone]

I don't know, there's no telling how many pilots have training contracts which is the only way they can bypass if no one junior to them remains on furlough. It would likely have to be a substantial number, at least enough to have a hard time staffing and enough to run a class, but if they do hire, be very, very careful.

1. After the peak summer season, you could find yourself furloughed... AirTran may be moving towards a Sun Country seasonal approach to staffing.

2. Instead of getting furloughed, you could be fired. You'd be probationary and AirTran just tried to fire the probationary pilots to get something they wanted. The union blinked. This time, MemRat will be in place and there won't be any blinking, no side letters without Member Ratification, so a new-hire could find themselves terminated 3-4 months after they got hired and there's nothing they could do about it except sue and wait.

3. There likely wouldn't be hiring for a LONG time to come after that, with no capacity increases planned for years. If you didn't get furloughed or fired, you'd get stuck on reserve for several years.

Management has made AirTran a horrible risk for new-hires. It can be a great place to work, and hopefully will be again someday, but they'll have to give the pilots a new contract and stop their antagonistic ways first...

duplicate post

 

[Browntothebone]

I don't know, there's no telling how many pilots have training contracts which is the only way they can bypass if no one junior to them remains on furlough. It would likely have to be a substantial number, at least enough to have a hard time staffing and enough to run a class, but if they do hire, be very, very careful.

1. After the peak summer season, you could find yourself furloughed... AirTran may be moving towards a Sun Country seasonal approach to staffing.

2. Instead of getting furloughed, you could be fired. You'd be probationary and AirTran just tried to fire the probationary pilots to get something they wanted. The union blinked. This time, MemRat will be in place and there won't be any blinking, no side letters without Member Ratification, so a new-hire could find themselves terminated 3-4 months after they got hired and there's nothing they could do about it except sue and wait.

3. There likely wouldn't be hiring for a LONG time to come after that, with no capacity increases planned for years. If you didn't get furloughed or fired, you'd get stuck on reserve for several years.

Management has made AirTran a horrible risk for new-hires. It can be a great place to work, and hopefully will be again someday, but they'll have to give the pilots a new contract and stop their antagonistic ways first...

Are you still fired from airtran for insurance fraud?

 

[ces152]

If we do end up hiring, I hope they offer the first class to the guys/gals who were suppose to be in the April 27th class of last year, that was cancelled. I know a few people from that class that definetely want to come to AT.

 

[PCL_128]

2. Instead of getting furloughed, you could be fired.

As crappy as LOA 9 was, it did at least include some protection from this happening again. It prohibits the company from firing probies without cause.

 

[Lear70]

Are you still fired from airtran for insurance fraud?

Nope, I'm still fired from AirTran for my union involvement and killing 2 T.A.'s and still awaiting Arbitration, but thanks for your concern.

I'm certain that's why you posted, right?

p.s. Does "Browntothebone" translate into "full of sh*t"? Just wondering...

 

[Lear70]

As crappy as LOA 9 was, it did at least include some protection from this happening again. It prohibits the company from firing probies without cause.

Au contraire, mon frer... this is one of the reasons I was so angry about LOA 9; it doesn't protect FUTURE new-hires:

"Notwithstanding any provision of the Agreement that may be deemed to provide to the contrary, the Company agrees that no pilot CURRENTLY EMPLOYED as a pilot with the Company who has not completed his probationary period will be terminated without cause..."

In other words, the only people protected by LOA 9 are the pilots who were employed on DOS of that LOA. Which does us absolutely ZERO good as the returning pilots will be OFF probation by the Fall and any FUTURE new-hires can still be canned without cause.

This is one of the big reasons MemRat passed. Side letters were being signed that don't give us jack in protection and got nothing back that does us any good. From now on, ALL side letters need to come to the pilot group to close up the holes you can drive a mac truuck through.

They use this contract as toilet paper; they violate the contract willfully every day; what makes you think they won't do it again?

I'll say it again: until there is a new contract in place that protects new-hires and the company has a change of heart on how they treat their employees, be very careful coming to work at AirTran.

It could be a GREAT place to work, but it's going to require a lot of work to get it there first.

 

[Browntothebone]

Nope, I'm still fired from AirTran for my union involvement and killing 2 T.A.'s and still awaiting Arbitration, but thanks for your concern.

I'm certain that's why you posted, right?

p.s. Does "Browntothebone" translate into "full of sh*t"? Just wondering...

Nope. It means "gainfully employed and a profitable airline." Quite unlike Lear70.

 

[Ty Webb]

All Hail the new Village Idiot!

Nope. It means "gainfully employed and a profitable airline." Quite unlike Lear70.

I don't know you, but I do know Lear, and I can tell from your post that you aren't fit to carry his flight case, little man.
----------

Ty Webb
(delivering well-deserved comeuppances to idiots like yourself on F.I. since 1996).

 

[Browntothebone]

I don't know you, but I do know Lear, and I can tell from your post that you aren't fit to carry his flight case, little man.
----------

Ty Webb
(delivering well-deserved comeuppances to idiots like yourself on F.I. since 1996).

How's that big pay raise you said that you would be getting in your new contract working out for you?

 

[Lear70]

Nope. It means "gainfully employed and a profitable airline." Quite unlike Lear70.

And evidently not an English major, or drinking early in the morning.

Either way, your posts only serve to point out not only your own IQ shortcomings but also your only purpose here on FI: to post useless brown fecal matter... so keep posting, please.

 

[veneratio]

So all the guys on probation that were fired have to re-interview and if hired start from the bottom again?

 

[Lear70]

So all the guys on probation that were fired have to re-interview and if hired start from the bottom again?

No.

The company was furloughing and, per the contract, the company had to release the training center retirees and fill their positions with active pilots before they could furlough an active pilot.

The company didn't want to do that, so the company was threatening to fire the probationary pilots to get around that restriction.

The union caved and signed a side-letter that "allowed" the company to keep the instructors in exchange for "only" furloughing the line pilots rather than firing them.

The legality of the whole maneuver was questionable, and although it protected the furloughees, it came at the cost of teaching management that threats, fear, and intimidation still works well on this pilot group. Until the pilots stop giving in to those kinds of tactics, we're never going to get a good contract. It's just that simple.

 

[PCL_128]

Au contraire, mon frer... this is one of the reasons I was so angry about LOA 9; it doesn't protect FUTURE new-hires:

Correct. I thought you were talking about the recalled guys possibly getting fired, which can't happen (assuming the language can hold up). Newhires would still not be protected, which is something we really need to fix in the next agreement.

This is one of the big reasons MemRat passed.

Yeah, I'm familiar.

 

[Lear70]

Correct. I thought you were talking about the recalled guys possibly getting fired, which can't happen (assuming the language can hold up). Newhires would still not be protected, which is something we really need to fix in the next agreement.

Yeah, BIG miss by the people negotiating LOA 9... Just makes one MORE thing to have to negotiate for.

Personally, I'm a big fan of going into negotiations, laying the stack of things they've violated and changed the status quo over the last 4 years, say "Fix these with NO required give-backs from us or we won't even sit down at the table". They say no, ask for immediate release into self-help, then walk out.

But that's just me... Personally, I'm surprised more pilots aren't quite simply DONE with playing nice. It hasn't worked in the last 3 years, why will it magically start working now?

The gloves really DO need to come off, and AirTran pilots need to start saving up a strike fund. Period.

Yeah, I'm familiar.

I thought you might be...

 

[Colonel Savage]

So new hires have no contractual recall rights?