AirTran pilots

[ultrarunner]

The NPA has been made aware that there is a call to engage in delay of flights and other activities directed against AirTran Airways, Inc.

Hold on...let me get this straight....the Airtran pilot union's own people negotiate a TA and the membership doesn't like it, so it's going to take it's anger out on the entire company.

You have GOT to be joking!

What was that I said about unions headed down the toilet?

Now you know why!

 

[USARET]

The NPA has been made aware that there is a call to engage in delay of flights and other activities directed against AirTran Airways, Inc. Please be aware that the National Pilot's Association disavows any such call or action and the NPA neither authorizes or condones any effort to incite or encourage a job action. The NPA further asks that anyone encouraging or considering such an effort cease doing so immediately.

Captain Allen Philpot, President-National Pilot's Association

Allen, the only thing that I have heard is in the works is an effort to recall you and the rest of the BOD /NC once this TA is voted down. I don't believe that qualifies as an illegal job action.

 

[newnan]

The NPA has been made aware that there is a call to engage in delay of flights and other activities directed against AirTran Airways, Inc. Please be aware that the National Pilot's Association disavows any such call or action and the NPA neither authorizes or condones any effort to incite or encourage a job action. The NPA further asks that anyone encouraging or considering such an effort cease doing so immediately.

Captain Allen Philpot, President-National Pilot's Association

bump.....

 

[Lear70]

Dropped the ball???? That would be the membership, right? Your MEC are elected officials, right???

How does the membership drop the ball on negotiations when we are not the ones negotiating?

We stated what we wanted in the Wilson Polling, we had an extremely good voter turnout for the last BOD President election, and up to 10% of the pilot group had answered the call for informational picketing, even though the BOD wasn't emailing directly and asking people to volunteer directly.

That's as much as we, the membership, should really be accountable for. If the BOD doesn't follow the direction of the Wilson Polling, then it's not the Membership that's to blame.

Not sure of the type of logical response you're looking for. It's your MEC. Obviously the do not speak for you. So, have you and your members started the recall process?

Yup. 3 different recall efforts went out last week. Trying to consolidate them under one mass effort and trying to make sure they don't get overzealous and recall the ENTIRE BOD.

We don't need that kind of instability. Replace the ringleaders who engineered this P.O.S., replace the NC, take 4-6 months to get all our ducks in a row, then start again.

Yes, we're taking action to fix it. That's what a responsible membership does when the elected officials go off on a tangent unsupported by the Wilson Polling data, i.e. the membership's direction.

 

[ultrarunner]

Lear, thanks for your response. Has anyone actually sat down with your NC and asked them what their motivation was? Not that it matters at this point, but it's possible you could replace them with folks that will have the SAME motivations.

It would seem a simple matter to oust the ring-leaders and simply elect the replacements AFTER CAREFUL SCREENING. Then you know exactly the message which would be delivered by your NC.

 

[Lear70]

Hold on...let me get this straight....the Airtran pilot union's own people negotiate a TA and the membership doesn't like it, so it's going to take it's anger out on the entire company.

You have GOT to be joking!

What was that I said about unions headed down the toilet?

Now you know why!

Hold on there, kemosabe... That's not what happened.

1. The company is using posts here on Flightinfo as basis for that "claim" by the company that there is a work stoppage being incited amongst the pilot group. Go back and read all the threads; NO ONE is saying to do ANYTHING job-related in response to this T.A. or in response to anything else.

2. I've been flying the line, am one of the people heading up the VOTE NO resistance, and I haven't heard a D*MN thing about any kind of job action. People are angry, but most of us are angry at the NPA, not the company.

3. There is absolutely NO reason to start any kind of work action at this point in time and we would NOT do so without being released per the RLA. Right now, we have not been released from the mediator into self help. Right now we really don't NEED to be released by the mediator into self-help, as this has all happened at this company before during the LAST round of negotiations. Bad T.A. comes out, gets voted down, new T.A. comes out, gets voted in.

No one has advocated ANYTHING other than voting this down and returning to the table with new negotiators and some changes in union leadership, all per the RLA. Period.

Incidentally, this isn't a public message board, it's a PRIVATE message board. You have to apply and pay for access and agree to abide by the rules of the forum and can be removed at any time with no recourse. If you don't do those things, you can't see or respond to the posts, so the company can't claim we're posting thoughts or opinions which are contrary to the best interest of the company on a PUBLIC forum... we're not.

The claim that people on this board are inciting people to illegal action per the RLA is unfounded, unsupported, and ludicrous.

 

[Lear70]

I do, however, have to give Kudos to the BOD for responding to the company's bag tag and sticker memo that came out on Crew Trac last week.

The letter from our attorneys was direct, concise, and let the company know, in no uncertain terms, that it was discriminatory to allow one set of tags and stickers for 2 1/2 years then suddenly decide they didn't like the new sticker and bag tags which simply advocated voting NO and returning to the table, not to mention a violation of the RLA to prohibit our ability to discuss pros and cons and vote without interference.

First good thing I've seen out of the BOD since last year. THAT'S the kind of response that lets the company know we aren't putting up with that kind of foolishness. Good job.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, thanks for your response. Has anyone actually sat down with your NC and asked them what their motivation was? Not that it matters at this point, but it's possible you could replace them with folks that will have the SAME motivations.

Yes, they have. Some of it can be discussed, some of it can't.

The long and short of it is:

1. They're scared what the company will do in a merger, which most of us understand is ridiculous and completely unfounded.

2. They're scared the company will be released into self-help and impose the contract THEY want and dare us to strike, believing we won't. According to the numbers we have, we DO have the solidarity to strike, should we be released.

3. They really think the pay is OK, even in light of the pay cuts from work rules and they don't understand just how badly we could be affected by the work rule changes if the company decided to really push the envelope. They've shown they don't understand by having absolutely NO response to our concerns when backed by actual T.A. language.

They're basically scared and don't want to fight anymore and risk the unknowns of merger or mediator action. Well, too bad. Life's not without risk, and I believe the odds are in our favor.

It would seem a simple matter to oust the ring-leaders and simply elect the replacements AFTER CAREFUL SCREENING. Then you know exactly the message which would be delivered by your NC.

That's the idea. Have to get one thing done at a time. First reject the T.A. with as good a NO vote as we can get. Second, clean house. Third, go back in with new people, new priorities, and keep the troops rallied while they're still good and P.O.'d.

 

[Lowrider717]

That's part of the problem, they use a lot of language interchangeably and have NO definitions section in this T.A. like our current CBA alots for.

But, what you're looking for is in Section 20 - hotels:

20.4 - "Hotel rooms will be provided in the following instances:"

20.A.4.c - "Where scheduled/reassigned ground time is expected to exceed five (5) hours at any station at the time of assignment or reassignment".

So yes, it's still in there, just a different place than what you're looking at.

What if they cancel a turn and you have 5:01 or more before your next leg. Not a scheduled, not really reassignment, just a cancellation. Under current contract this exact situation has happened to me maybe 3-4 times (6.5 yr capt) and I've been able to get a room provided. The Q/A doesn't address this particular, but is SUGGESTS that if the whole five plus hour delay(till the next leg) occurs up front, then you'd get the room. I guess we just assume that.

Doesn't matter, I'm still voting NO.

Awsome job on the analying LEAR & CO. Good work.

The BoD should have invited just such scrutiny (like an FAA NPRM) before endorsement. I guess they were in too much of a rush.

Maybe its just me but the NPA made a big deal about how many extra pages of Q/A there were. Is that because of the bigger font or spacing? They still seem lacking to me.

 

[captainj]

at no time was I trying to sugest anything but voicing my displeasure at the threats by the cp. any action implyed by this post would only be free speach. unlike the threats by the cp office trying to stop influance this election through threats of time off work for talking or displaying our view on this ta.