Airtran Pilots, Don't buy that new house yet..

[Cometman]

I understand how your point can breed some resentment however I still don't see how it would impact your career progression or bidding with a ratio integration. An arbitrator will not only look at pay but also career progression to which an argument can be made for a six year AirTran FO that will no longer be upgrading but will have to wait an additional six years to get to the left seat. I understand he will be making more money but pay is only one variable out of many that an arbitrator will factor in.

BTW, not that it matters, unless a lot of your senior pilots want to move to Georgia but the number one guy at AirTran as well as many senior pilots live in Atlanta.

I am not with either airline but just curious. I guess I did one way to merge the lists was by Relative Senority. Does that mean if you are in the top 1% at one airline then you move to the top 1% of the combined airline? If that is correct then the number one guy at AT would be close to the top of the SWA list. Is that correct? If so, that would put a 1993 guy with the 1975 guy.

 

[MCDU]

You do realize that DOH has nothing to do with seniority don't you? You don't bid a line, base , vacation or anything else based on your DOH. DOH only affects your longevity for pay, pass privileges, ect. Longevity and seniority are not interrelated.

Tell that to any real union. Longevity has everything to do with seniority. Look up the word seniority or just ask every other union how seniority is defined. Little old airtran down in MCO merged with Valujet. That went DOH.

M

 

[Kharma Police]

I am not with either airline but just curious. I guess I did one way to merge the lists was by Relative Senority. Does that mean if you are in the top 1% at one airline then you move to the top 1% of the combined airline? If that is correct then the number one guy at AT would be close to the top of the SWA list. Is that correct? If so, that would put a 1993 guy with the 1975 guy.

You are correct, which of course would not sit well with many pilots. The PAN-AM/National merger had some similar elements. The "Worlds Most Experienced Airline" acquired a much smaller younger airline. Much to the dismay of the PAN-AM pilots, the arbitrator pretty much kept it a relative merger. I just hope this doesn't turn into an, "Orange Pukes vs. Blue Pukes" atmosphere like they had.

 

[jonjuan]

Correct me if I am wrong. If an AT guy is number one on his list with relative senority he would be close to number one with SWA? If that is the case then you would have a guy that was hired in about 1993 next to guy that was hired in 1975. Would that be a fair system?

How is it unfair to the 1975 "lottery winner?"

 

[Cometman]

How is it unfair to the 1975 "lottery winner?"

That was funny.

 

[zman]

tell that to any real union. Longevity has everything to do with seniority. Look up the word seniority or just ask every other union how seniority is defined. Little old airtran down in mco merged with valujet. that went doh.

m

wrong!!!.......

 

[Empennage]

I think we can all agree a mutually, workable SLI is the best thing we can both accomplish. If this thing goes to an arbitrator (as it appears most of airtran wants), it will be ugly for a long, long time to come. Continued erosion of SWA culture.

Age 65 caused a rift at SWA, just like the voting down of TA1 did. That is nothing compared to an acquisition integration.

 

[Kharma Police]

I think we can all agree a mutually, workable SLI is the best thing we can both accomplish. If this thing goes to an arbitrator (as it appears most of airtran wants), it will be ugly for a long, long time to come. Continued erosion of SWA culture.

Age 65 caused a rift at SWA, just like the voting down of TA1 did. That is nothing compared to an acquisition integration.

So, if SWAPA came to a decision that you felt was unfavorable to your career then you wouldn't sue? I guarantee every ambulance chaser from coast to coast will call every name on your seniority list before the ink is dry on the new list filling your ears with how SWAPA screwed you and how they should pay. The arbitrator will limit our Union's exposure to possible litigation. When it's said and done, don't blame SWAPA (or ALPA), blame the arbitrator!

 

[Empennage]

No - I'm more concerned about the unity and solidarity of the combined group.

 

[Kharma Police]

No - I'm more concerned about the unity and solidarity of the combined group.

That is an excellent and very valid concern. In my opinion, if a third party made the decision it would hopefully curtail some infighting or Monday morning quarterbacking from our respective sides.

 

[Dan Roman]

No - I'm more concerned about the unity and solidarity of the combined group.

From the sidelines it sure looks like some of the SWA folks on here are doing their best to sink that "SWA culture" All this talk about staple, "we are better than you" etc will sink the place. Piedmont and USAir were two of the best airlines in the industry back in the 80's, until they merged that is. Absolutely amazing that there are SWA F/O's on here that seem to think they should be taking over some of the AirTran Captain positions.

 

[General Lee]

I think we can all agree a mutually, workable SLI is the best thing we can both accomplish. If this thing goes to an arbitrator (as it appears most of airtran wants), it will be ugly for a long, long time to come. Continued erosion of SWA culture.

Age 65 caused a rift at SWA, just like the voting down of TA1 did. That is nothing compared to an acquisition integration.

HEY AWESOME DUDES. Sorry I haven't been on here in awhile, I have been busy flying all over the WORLD. Anyway.......

RESPECTFULLY Mr Empennage, YOU ARE FULL OF IT. Everything you say is wrong. The SLI will go through arbitrators, and you will have NO CONTROL yourself. You can talk to your REPs and they may tell your lawyers what to possibly say, but that is about it. No chance of a staple (thanks to the Bond/McCaskil bill). I forsee some SWA pilots at the top of the eventual list because SWA has been around longer,(maybe top 300 spots) but after that it will be relative most likely. The good thing about arbitration is everyone knows who to blame---the ARBITRATORS. Both of your airlines are LCCs, both are profitable, both have the same type of planes (mostly), and it sounds like BOTH airlines bring something to the table (even AT---more LGA slots, DCA slots, INTL flying, and ATL). But I understand why you are upset if you are a SWA FO----longer upgrade time, meaning more of a wait until you hit the ultimate prize of $$$$$. We all understand that. But, that is the way it goes MY BROTHER! PEACE AND LOVE BABY, PEACE AND LOVE. Just think, the more time you have in the right seat, means the easier it will be in 6 to 7 years when you transition to the left. THAT WILL BE AWESOME!

Regardless, you guys are ALL FANTASTIC. REALLY. You will LEARN TO LOVE EACHOTHER, and just because the AT guys will be more identifiable thanks to their super huge grins and new whiter teeth, doesn't mean any of you have to be mad. And, if you have time tomorrow, please, do something nice for someone, like throwing a homeless guy a box of Nerds. Hey, we all like candy! See ya!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[texman]

Box of Nerds. funny.

 

[Dude]

I don't care what anyone says, we all do the same job no matter what logo is on the tail. SWA and AT have their share of problem children.....so does everyone else. Good news......we aren't all like the people here.

Welcome AirTran homeboys! $hit happens and you buy someone. I don't like it, but it wasn't my call. The reason I don't like it is because I wanted our leadership to buy airplanes, not airplanes and pilots. But since we get pilots too.....let's go get drunk and make fun of management while we try to get table dances from the Flight Attendants - the 10 or so that are not fat or Super Gay.

 

[ofacegangsta]

Absolutely amazing that there are SWA F/O's on here that seem to think they should be taking over some of the AirTran Captain positions.

Everyone at SWA has been a captain (or Colonel) too. I can promise that there are AAI FO's that have never been a 121 CA or Colonel. They'll get the opportunity. I'll get mine after giving-up my seat to join the SWA family.

 

[Ty Webb]

Everyone at SWA has been a captain (or Colonel) too. I can promise that there are AAI FO's that have never been a 121 CA or Colonel. They'll get the opportunity. I'll get mine after giving-up my seat to join the SWA family.

"Everyone at SWA has been a CA or a Colonel" . . . . Really, you must have more colonels than a Kentucky Fried Chicken convention, bubba. :laugh:

BTW, everyone at AirTran has been a Captain previously, that requirement has been around since early 2002. If there were any exceptions to that requirement, I haven't heard of any.

 

[Lear70]

Everyone at SWA has been a captain (or Colonel) too. I can promise that there are AAI FO's that have never been a 121 CA or Colonel. They'll get the opportunity. I'll get mine after giving-up my seat to join the SWA family.

Really? You know that much about our company from way over there, huh?

You *DO* realize that we don't hire anyone who hasn't either been a 121 CA or a military Aircraft Commander, right?

OK, I'll give you 4 that haven't, one MX guy that came over after 10+ years with the company, one Dispatcher similar story, and two friends of senior management that came over from years of corporate flying in the left seat. Otherwise, the other 800 or so? Yeah, all 121 CA's or AC Cmdr.

What's your point, anyway?

 

[rajflyboy]

Come on now

SWA will hire an F16 jock with 1500 hours and virtually no real instrument experience.

Air Tran has hired some guys that haven't been captains

Everyone knows its more "Who You Know" than what you know to get hired at most companies.

 

[rajflyboy]

Important web sight for those Air Tranny folks that want to merge with SWA pilots.

http://higherpoweraviation.com/

 

[turbinej]

American/Reno Air

Southwest=American Air Tran/Reno Air

Good Luck guys