AirTran Pilots and Union Board Support Changing FAA Age 60 Rule

[Just thinking]

Gents,
I was polled and said NO. From all the pilots that I have spoken with, the "majority" is not in favor. We have a high speed web site that requires a password to access. One access, one vote. No reason that every pilot can not take a few moments to ensure they have a voice that is heard. That would be better money spent than a hotel packet that is only as good as the latest hotel change. (Not that having that information is going to change your overnight.)
Another phone call alluded to the fact that the TA's that are being rushed to finish and get out to a vote are "not very promising." Best way to respond to the company and to the NC is to vote it down with a resounding NO. If they have not tightened the language for scheduling and pay protection and seriously worked the numbers for pay (hourly, longevity and cost of living adjustments) then our NC needs to do the job that they are being so dearly paid for. FO's need a pay raise and pay capped Captains need at least cost of living adjustments. Industry professionals are talking about the profits that will be made over the next couple of years. If we sign off on a piece of dirt TA then we will only have ourselves to blame. Let's not waste money at fancy dinners with Midwest pilots until we need to. Let's focus on OUR pilot group to ensure that OUR pilot group gets the contract that we deserve.
Do the job that you are being paid for.
If you are a line pilot, fly the line to keep the airline on schedule in a safe and efficient manner. Do it in a cheerful manner to keep our customers happy. Be professional.
All others need to do their job and get us a TA that is worth the paper that it is written upon. Highest dues in the industry and I demand they represent the pilot group and conduct themselves accordingly. Don't waste my money or time.
You have one of the most efficient pilot groups in the industry. You have the lowest employee to aircraft ratios in the industry. You have the lowest cost per seat mile in the industry (minus fuel costs). I am proud of these accomplishments for the pilot group and for the company.
You have the tools now lets make this happen for everybody.

 

[FIREMAN]

Well Said !!!!

 

[SkiFishFly]

They had to leave out a couple key words in the release...

The National Pilots Association, AirTran's 1,400 member pilot union, released survey data today showing that just under two-thirds (63%) of its members who were polled support changing the current mandatory retirement age for commercial pilots from sixty (60) to sixty-five (65).

I've said it before - there needs to be a yes or no vote of all the membership. This is too big an issue to rely on sampling/polling data.

 

[Lear70]

Another phone call alluded to the fact that the TA's that are being rushed to finish and get out to a vote are "not very promising." Best way to respond to the company and to the NC is to vote it down with a resounding NO.

If they have not tightened the language for scheduling and pay protection and seriously worked the numbers for pay (hourly, longevity and cost of living adjustments) then our NC needs to do the job that they are being so dearly paid for. FO's need a pay raise and pay capped Captains need at least cost of living adjustments.

Industry professionals are talking about the profits that will be made over the next couple of years. If we sign off on a piece of dirt TA then we will only have ourselves to blame. Let's not waste money at fancy dinners with Midwest pilots until we need to. Let's focus on OUR pilot group to ensure that OUR pilot group gets the contract that we deserve.

Do the job that you are being paid for. If you are a line pilot, fly the line to keep the airline on schedule in a safe and efficient manner. Do it in a cheerful manner to keep our customers happy. Be professional.

All others need to do their job and get us a TA that is worth the paper that it is written upon. Highest dues in the industry and I demand they represent the pilot group and conduct themselves accordingly. Don't waste my money or time.

You have one of the most efficient pilot groups in the industry. You have the lowest employee to aircraft ratios in the industry. You have the lowest cost per seat mile in the industry (minus fuel costs). I am proud of these accomplishments for the pilot group and for the company.

You have the tools now lets make this happen for everybody.

BINGO!!

Right on target, and well-said!

 

[bladeusa]

i wasnt asked.. and i would've voted NO.

 

[beech1900kid]

What a bunch of crap. I was not asked either so this poll and union press release does not represent my view at all. i would have voted NO, but I guess my union knows better.

 

[humveedriver]

This thread is shameful. Or maybe the poll was shameful. Either way if your pissed about the way NPA is handling something, I hope you contact Al directly, because all I see here is venting.... not fixing the problem.

 

[j41driver]

Please, please email or call Allen and the BoD to let him know how you feel about your "representation".

 

[j41driver]

I hope you contact Al directly

Yep. Done it several times. Still waiting for a reply. Contacted the Age 60 committee chairman too, all he tried to do was change my opinion. This union "leadership" does not seem to care what the line pilot thinks. What a friggin' joke...

 

[Lear70]

Yep. Done it several times. Still waiting for a reply. Contacted the Age 60 committee chairman too, all he tried to do was change my opinion. This union "leadership" does not seem to care what the line pilot thinks. What a friggin' joke...

You actually got ahold of someone?

I've written a few emails, too. The only ones replied to were from the P2P committee chair and the merger & acquisition committee guys.

The ones I wrote to Phil, the Bod, or anyone else about the activities the NPA conducted over Christmas and the recent LOA's have all gone unanswered.

 

[j41driver]

You actually got ahold of someone?

I've written a few emails, too. The only ones replied to were from the P2P committee chair and the merger & acquisition committee guys.

The ones I wrote to Phil, the Bod, or anyone else about the activities the NPA conducted over Christmas and the recent LOA's have all gone unanswered.

Gotta love it. Wonder where we'd be if DP would have won?

 

[Lear70]

Good question. I doubt we'd be getting any more actual $$ than the PROPOSED rates from the current leadership.

Those rates aren't anywhere near high enough on the F/O side. The proposed work rules better be STELLAR and make up another 7-10% increase for me to vote yes.

Do you think DP would have been able to achieve that? Do you think he'd even have tried? From the information I was getting, he was pretty much looking for a "cost neutral" contract with some cleaned up contract language.

Guess we'll never know. Unless they bring us a bad T.A. or two, they get voted down, and we have a recall. Highly unlikely as that may be...

Hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[j41driver]

Yeah...I'm not sure DP would have been the answer. Just wondering out loud. I'm right there with you on the contract improvements. Good luck to us all.

 

[Sunking]

Im sure Im about to open a can of worms but here goes....

I was polled by wilson and lent my support for 65. Let's face it, the age 60 rule was started by a B.S. management ploy to get rid of high paid pilots at AA. Its the greed of pilots to upgrade that keeps it going, safety was never an issue just an excuse because we can't say we are greedy s.o.b.s.

p.s. I know it will come up, no I'm not 59 more like 42

 

[Ty Webb]

If DP was the answer, it must have been a pretty f$^%-ed up question.

Yeah, just what we need, a management pilot who has never flown a real month under this contract to be negotiating for us . . .

Scary thing is that 40% of the guys on the property didn't have the common sense to see that.

As for age 60 . . . I hope to be the hell out of here and out of this industry way before that, but you are giving up a lot when you agree to age 65 retirement. Count on the Company reducing the 10.5% contribution. . . . . and your Union going along with it. Maybe not now, or next year, but probably by Contract 2010, it will happen ". . . . after all, you're getting another 5 years of pay and retirement contribution".



.

.

 

[airfogey]

Im sure Im about to open a can of worms but here goes....

I was polled by wilson and lent my support for 65. Let's face it, the age 60 rule was started by a B.S. management ploy to get rid of high paid pilots at AA. Its the greed of pilots to upgrade that keeps it going, safety was never an issue just an excuse because we can't say we are greedy s.o.b.s.

p.s. I know it will come up, no I'm not 59 more like 42

I don't think you opened up a can of worms at all--however I have been in the civilian airline industry for 24 years now and I'm constantly amazed to listen to all the bellyaching about how miserable you all are and if the retirement age increases it will all ruin your lives cause you want to be out of aviation well before 60 cause you all hate your jobs so much.

Airfogey

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Scary thing is that 40% of the guys on the property didn't have the common sense to see that.
.

Also scary to see that 60% didn't have the common sense to see that AP and his "boys" don't seem to care about any of the members' actual opinions.

Oh, and I was Wilson polled. I'm sure it will be the last time. I didn't answer the questions the "right" way.

 

[T3700]

I'm hearing a 10% across the board pay raise. That gets us just even with inflation since the last one (three years ago). With a five year contract (if we don't get some sort of COLA built in), that would be a 15% pay cut by year five. Inflation has averaged 3% a year lately.

I can hear the arguments now: "but you get a pay raise every year", "Don't worry about FO pay, you'll be a Captain in 2 1/2 years", and of course "When I was at Eastern, FO's worked for tips and table scraps, you have nothing to complain about".

 

[doer42]

I would be on the lookout in the proposed contract TA, if and when it ever comes out, for provisions for the guys over 60 to come back with their respespective seniority when the rule changes. If so, vote it down to show how you feel about the union representing the membership.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

P.S. I like Philpot’s age reference to experience. The botched landing in RDU was by a 55-year old; Southwest’s rwy overrun was by a 58-year old, to name a couple… I guess it must be ALL THAT experience, Philpot. Accidents/incident can happen to anybody. While age = experience, experience does NOT equate to safety.

I agree with you on your point that age=experience does NOT equate to safety....look at the Comair crash, for example.