AirTran Pilots and Union Board Support Changing FAA Age 60 Rule

[j41driver]

You actually got ahold of someone?

I've written a few emails, too. The only ones replied to were from the P2P committee chair and the merger & acquisition committee guys.

The ones I wrote to Phil, the Bod, or anyone else about the activities the NPA conducted over Christmas and the recent LOA's have all gone unanswered.

Gotta love it. Wonder where we'd be if DP would have won?

 

[Lear70]

Good question. I doubt we'd be getting any more actual $$ than the PROPOSED rates from the current leadership.

Those rates aren't anywhere near high enough on the F/O side. The proposed work rules better be STELLAR and make up another 7-10% increase for me to vote yes.

Do you think DP would have been able to achieve that? Do you think he'd even have tried? From the information I was getting, he was pretty much looking for a "cost neutral" contract with some cleaned up contract language.

Guess we'll never know. Unless they bring us a bad T.A. or two, they get voted down, and we have a recall. Highly unlikely as that may be...

Hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[j41driver]

Yeah...I'm not sure DP would have been the answer. Just wondering out loud. I'm right there with you on the contract improvements. Good luck to us all.

 

[Sunking]

Im sure Im about to open a can of worms but here goes....

I was polled by wilson and lent my support for 65. Let's face it, the age 60 rule was started by a B.S. management ploy to get rid of high paid pilots at AA. Its the greed of pilots to upgrade that keeps it going, safety was never an issue just an excuse because we can't say we are greedy s.o.b.s.

p.s. I know it will come up, no I'm not 59 more like 42

 

[Ty Webb]

If DP was the answer, it must have been a pretty f$^%-ed up question.

Yeah, just what we need, a management pilot who has never flown a real month under this contract to be negotiating for us . . .

Scary thing is that 40% of the guys on the property didn't have the common sense to see that.

As for age 60 . . . I hope to be the hell out of here and out of this industry way before that, but you are giving up a lot when you agree to age 65 retirement. Count on the Company reducing the 10.5% contribution. . . . . and your Union going along with it. Maybe not now, or next year, but probably by Contract 2010, it will happen ". . . . after all, you're getting another 5 years of pay and retirement contribution".



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[airfogey]

Im sure Im about to open a can of worms but here goes....

I was polled by wilson and lent my support for 65. Let's face it, the age 60 rule was started by a B.S. management ploy to get rid of high paid pilots at AA. Its the greed of pilots to upgrade that keeps it going, safety was never an issue just an excuse because we can't say we are greedy s.o.b.s.

p.s. I know it will come up, no I'm not 59 more like 42

I don't think you opened up a can of worms at all--however I have been in the civilian airline industry for 24 years now and I'm constantly amazed to listen to all the bellyaching about how miserable you all are and if the retirement age increases it will all ruin your lives cause you want to be out of aviation well before 60 cause you all hate your jobs so much.

Airfogey

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Scary thing is that 40% of the guys on the property didn't have the common sense to see that.
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Also scary to see that 60% didn't have the common sense to see that AP and his "boys" don't seem to care about any of the members' actual opinions.

Oh, and I was Wilson polled. I'm sure it will be the last time. I didn't answer the questions the "right" way.

 

[T3700]

I'm hearing a 10% across the board pay raise. That gets us just even with inflation since the last one (three years ago). With a five year contract (if we don't get some sort of COLA built in), that would be a 15% pay cut by year five. Inflation has averaged 3% a year lately.

I can hear the arguments now: "but you get a pay raise every year", "Don't worry about FO pay, you'll be a Captain in 2 1/2 years", and of course "When I was at Eastern, FO's worked for tips and table scraps, you have nothing to complain about".

 

[doer42]

I would be on the lookout in the proposed contract TA, if and when it ever comes out, for provisions for the guys over 60 to come back with their respespective seniority when the rule changes. If so, vote it down to show how you feel about the union representing the membership.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

P.S. I like Philpot’s age reference to experience. The botched landing in RDU was by a 55-year old; Southwest’s rwy overrun was by a 58-year old, to name a couple… I guess it must be ALL THAT experience, Philpot. Accidents/incident can happen to anybody. While age = experience, experience does NOT equate to safety.

I agree with you on your point that age=experience does NOT equate to safety....look at the Comair crash, for example.

 

[AFcitrus]

It's going two be two+ years before any pilots fly beyond 60. (Based on current legislation)

Hopefully we have a contract before then. Here's what I say:

1)Everyone call AP or BL and demand a 100% poll on the age 60 issue. Just put a questionaire in everyone's v-file and give a deadline. Then we will know the truth. I was polled and said "no" but no one knows the make-up of the pollees nor whether accurate results were even reported from the poll. (yes, I wouldn't put it past AP and his VMOF - vocal minority of old farts - to do such a thing)

2) Any contract that doesn't start with a COLA payback for the past 3 years is a "no". I mean that's the no brainer minimum, above that we get what we can get. Also some sort of language (i.e - $$$ penalty) so the company has more of an incentive to settle the next contract in a timely fashion so COLA isn't such an issue for us.

3) Any references in any shape or form to allowing age 60+ guys back is a big "NO". We may have to endure the decisions of the idiots in Washington who are paid for their votes, but we don't have to give any more.


Have a nice day.

 

[c9skytrain]

I was polled. It was the last question of a long series of questions. It was worded over the phone in a very convoluted way. I had to hear it twice in order to answer that I was against age 65. I would guess a good number of people were not paying attention when they got to that question.

 

[-9Capt]

The choices were do you "strongly support, support, neutral, disagree, strongly disagree" with the proposal to change the age 60 rule. I chose "disagree".

 

[Sunking]

I don't think you opened up a can of worms at all--however I have been in the civilian airline industry for 24 years now and I'm constantly amazed to listen to all the bellyaching about how miserable you all are and if the retirement age increases it will all ruin your lives cause you want to be out of aviation well before 60 cause you all hate your jobs so much.

Airfogey

Well said Airfogey

Funny thing is I've seen alot of guys hit 60 and had to retire in my mere 16 years of Airline experience.. and I haven't heard one of them that was glad it was over. Well except for years ago when they walked with a multi-millon dollar pay check. Other wise its a very sad occassion when that day arrives. I for one love my job and plan to fly beyond 60, even if I don't have to.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well said Airfogey

I for one love my job and plan to fly beyond 60, even if I don't have to.

Great . . . then you won't mind flying as my FO so someone else that loves his job can come back from furlough or upgrade.

You benefitted from the system your entire career. Period.


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