AirTran Pilots and Union Board Support Changing FAA Age 60 Rule

[AFcitrus]

It's going two be two+ years before any pilots fly beyond 60. (Based on current legislation)

Hopefully we have a contract before then. Here's what I say:

1)Everyone call AP or BL and demand a 100% poll on the age 60 issue. Just put a questionaire in everyone's v-file and give a deadline. Then we will know the truth. I was polled and said "no" but no one knows the make-up of the pollees nor whether accurate results were even reported from the poll. (yes, I wouldn't put it past AP and his VMOF - vocal minority of old farts - to do such a thing)

2) Any contract that doesn't start with a COLA payback for the past 3 years is a "no". I mean that's the no brainer minimum, above that we get what we can get. Also some sort of language (i.e - $$$ penalty) so the company has more of an incentive to settle the next contract in a timely fashion so COLA isn't such an issue for us.

3) Any references in any shape or form to allowing age 60+ guys back is a big "NO". We may have to endure the decisions of the idiots in Washington who are paid for their votes, but we don't have to give any more.


Have a nice day.

 

[c9skytrain]

I was polled. It was the last question of a long series of questions. It was worded over the phone in a very convoluted way. I had to hear it twice in order to answer that I was against age 65. I would guess a good number of people were not paying attention when they got to that question.

 

[-9Capt]

The choices were do you "strongly support, support, neutral, disagree, strongly disagree" with the proposal to change the age 60 rule. I chose "disagree".

 

[Sunking]

I don't think you opened up a can of worms at all--however I have been in the civilian airline industry for 24 years now and I'm constantly amazed to listen to all the bellyaching about how miserable you all are and if the retirement age increases it will all ruin your lives cause you want to be out of aviation well before 60 cause you all hate your jobs so much.

Airfogey

Well said Airfogey

Funny thing is I've seen alot of guys hit 60 and had to retire in my mere 16 years of Airline experience.. and I haven't heard one of them that was glad it was over. Well except for years ago when they walked with a multi-millon dollar pay check. Other wise its a very sad occassion when that day arrives. I for one love my job and plan to fly beyond 60, even if I don't have to.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well said Airfogey

I for one love my job and plan to fly beyond 60, even if I don't have to.

Great . . . then you won't mind flying as my FO so someone else that loves his job can come back from furlough or upgrade.

You benefitted from the system your entire career. Period.


.

 

[j41driver]

Great . . . then you won't mind flying as my FO so someone else that loves his job can come back from furlough or upgrade.

You benefitted from the system your entire career. Period.


.

A-freakin'-men!!!

 

[SkiFishFly]

Great . . . then you won't mind flying as my FO so someone else that loves his job can come back from furlough or upgrade.

You benefitted from the system your entire career. Period.


.

Ty - there are some of us who are mid 40s and new to the airline business. You can't really say we have benefited much from the age 60 rule.
I support the change mainly because I think it grossly unfair for the US Gov to allow a foreigner to perform a job on US soil while it prohibits a US citizen from doing the same job. Especially since the only resaon the US citizen is prohibited is based soley on his/her age. I think the change is going to happen - it is just a matter of how soon.

 

[doer42]

Ty - there are some of us who are mid 40s and new to the airline business. You can't really say we have benefited much from the age 60 rule.

How do you think you got the job? Do you really think that if pilots had not been forced to leave because of this rule there would be as many new pilot jobs as there have been. When the rule changes, hiring and upgrades will slow down to a trickle for 3-5 years, until it again stabilizes when retirements start again.

 

[Lear70]

I'm hearing a 10% across the board pay raise. That gets us just even with inflation since the last one (three years ago). With a five year contract (if we don't get some sort of COLA built in), that would be a 15% pay cut by year five. Inflation has averaged 3% a year lately.

I can hear the arguments now: "but you get a pay raise every year", "Don't worry about FO pay, you'll be a Captain in 2 1/2 years".

BINGO!

EVERYONE needs to understand this basic FACT of pay raises.

3 years without a COLA raise = approximately 9% of a BASE pay raise JUST TO KEEP PACE WITH INFLATION.

That means if they come to us with a 15% pay raise, that REALLY means you just got a 6% raise over what our rates were 3 years ago in equivalent dollars.

So the pilot group has waited 3 years for a 6% raise?

That's why I've said the F/O's need AT LEAST a 25% raise IMMEDIATELY, going up by 3% per year for COLA plus an extra 3-5% for longevity at the bare minimum, for each year of the contract. That would be a 16% pay raise and would bring us about 1/3 of the way towards matching Southwest's pay scale.

3) Any references in any shape or form to allowing age 60+ guys back is a big "NO". We may have to endure the decisions of the idiots in Washington who are paid for their votes, but we don't have to give any more.

I don't have a problem with the age 60+ guys coming back under 2 conditions.

1. They don't get to come back as CA's. They can come back as F/O's.

2. They get to come back at their old longevity. If they were 15 year CA's, they can come back as 15 year F/O's.

This is what the legislation SHOULD have done to begin with for at least a 5 year, preferably a 15 year "integration period".

That way, they get some extra coin until they can collect social security AND those who are slated to upgrade don't have as bad of a financial impact to their career.

 

[tomgoodman]

Ask them in a year or so...

.... I've seen alot of guys hit 60 and had to retire in my mere 16 years of Airline experience.. and I haven't heard one of them that was glad it was over.

Probably true right after their last flight, but within a short time lots of them say "retirement is fantastic -- wish I'd gone earlier!" Not all, of course, especially if they couldn't put enough money aside or never developed an outside "life" while working.