Airtran or Usairways?

[PCL_128]

Lear, right now we're staffed at just over 12 pilots per airplane, which seems to be about right for our staffing. That would bring up your numbers a bit, plus you're not accounting for the guys like me that don't intend to upgrade into a reserve line unless reserve rules improve a whole hell of a lot. I and a lot of other FOs will wait until we can at least hold a build-up. That means that the guys junior to us who are just wanting a quick upgrade will get their slot sooner than the straight numbers would make it look like.

 

[mnboyev]

Ahhh... your both right...

 

[Lear70]

Lear, right now we're staffed at just over 12 pilots per airplane, which seems to be about right for our staffing.

That's true, but there's just shy of 50 guys out on long-term medical issues that are on the seniority list, plus the management-types that are on the seniority list also, plus union guys on full-time buy. As the seniority list grows, those numbers go up, too.

It's probably closer to 11:1, and maybe frees up an extra 10-15 CA slots per year.

That would bring up your numbers a bit, plus you're not accounting for the guys like me that don't intend to upgrade into a reserve line unless reserve rules improve a whole hell of a lot. I and a lot of other FOs will wait until we can at least hold a build-up. That means that the guys junior to us who are just wanting a quick upgrade will get their slot sooner than the straight numbers would make it look like.

That's true, but how many of those do you think there are? For a single guy living in domicile, sure, bypass on 5th year F/O pay is still livable (although I wouldn't advise ever bypassing, you never know when the music will stop), but I can't imagine there are that many to impact upgrades by that much with a seniority list of over 2,000 peeps.

Could be wrong, I have been before.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Thanks for an easy thread... AirTran, hands down.

But then again, I expected US Air to have been out of business a few years ago, yet they are still here. Having first hand experience with America West's management team and knowing that US Air's profits are far less than the concessions made by their employees, I'd say AirTran.

Also, AirTran could benefit from the Delta merger. Everyone says that Delta will not allow further market erosion, but it might not be Delta's choice. (not like Delta ever decided to give AAI 30% of the ATL O&D market)

The distraction, operational and financial cost has to weigh in AAI's favor. Meanwhile US Airways more than ever looks to be odd man out in the international arena.

Others have mentioned AirTran's fleet and upgrade potential. My friends who were pretty hard core "Widget Heads" are not jumping the fence to come to Delta - they are happy and staying put - tells you something.

 

[PCL_128]

That's true, but how many of those do you think there are?

Just 6 months ago I would have said "not many," but I think that's changed with the resurgence of URPs and the elimination of the ability to drop reserve days. I know the latter is what has made me decide that upgrading into a reserve line isn't worthwhile.Just 6 months ago I would have said "not many," but I think that's changed with the resurgence of URPs and the elimination of the ability to drop reserve days. I know the latter is what has made me decide that upgrading into a reserve line isn't worthwhile.

Also, keep in mind that both of us were predicting 5-year upgrades at Pinnacle a few years ago, and it actually went the other way to street Captains. Trying to peg upgrade times isn't an easy game.

 

[Lear70]

Just 6 months ago I would have said "not many," but I think that's changed with the resurgence of URPs and the elimination of the ability to drop reserve days. I know the latter is what has made me decide that upgrading into a reserve line isn't worthwhile.Just 6 months ago I would have said "not many," but I think that's changed with the resurgence of URPs and the elimination of the ability to drop reserve days. I know the latter is what has made me decide that upgrading into a reserve line isn't worthwhile.

No doubt. IMHO, it's another game of "let's take something away so that they have to waste negotiating capital to get it back".

Also, keep in mind that both of us were predicting 5-year upgrades at Pinnacle a few years ago, and it actually went the other way to street Captains. Trying to peg upgrade times isn't an easy game.

True. What changed it however was the opening of the flood gates of attrition as the majors started hiring all of the PCL CA's. I don't know if we'd see that kind of attrition here, and certainly not on the CA side...

Wish I had a crystal ball... might still have a job right now if I'd have known the company was going to really step THAT far out of the bounds of reasonable behavior and open themselves to the kind of litigation they're about to get served...

 

[Dashcaptain]

I hit 3 years on the 13th and pilots from my class should be going into upgrade in March. I am going to miss it by about 2-3 numbers. I have a 2 leg commute and am not going to bypass. You just never know what may happen here.

Good luck.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

One more thing to consider is the opening of probably two more pilot bases. The company is fighting for virtual bases to keep the addition pilots requirements down but that will still add reserves in base. If the union has its way and does not allow virtual bases then it will be considerably more. Plus who knows how seniority will play out in the new bases. Bases that are not very popular (with the amount of commuters it could be atlanta) could go even more junior.

 

[AV80R]

Quick update regarding my previous post:

"Recently a buddy of mine was hired at AT and at USAirways at the same time - he chose USAirways and I wish him luck, however I think he'd have been much happier and his career would have been ‘safer’ at Airtran. Of course, things can change tomorrow."

My buddy who's still in training at USAirways is now bailing for NWA - apparently the morale is horrible over there. I doubt it'll be much better at NWA though. In my opinion he should've picked Airtran to begin with.

 

[airline#5]

He should have picked a different profession if he really valued his future.