AirTran negotiations update

[mchdtw]

Cav,

shouldn't you be out flying. Having a great time here, miss the guys at Tranny. Tell Joe R I said "hello." See ya.

-M

 

[pit717]

why dont you make it number 6.....see ya

 

[In The Wind]

You know what I mean, and I am gald that you are. Just remember we are all on your side.

 

[Britpilot]

Because you have Pilots who will not honor a picket line. Most Majors do too, but Airtran has it share. Good luck!

How many do we have?

 

[Lear70]

How many do we have?

Too many.

As well as too many people who will vote Yes on just about anything that comes across the table, as long as their pay and QOL doesn't decrease.

That's what makes this such a hard sell... and is why airlines such as NWA and DAL had such borderline YES votes on their concessionary contracts. All it takes is 51% to say "I can live with that", and everyone else gets stuck with it.

Hard to negotiate when management is very well aware of the 10% that will vote Yes no matter what and another 20 or so percent that will vote Yes as long as CA pay goes up. Management is more than halfway to a victory before they even step foot into the room to negotiate.

To the CA's who are willing to step up and do the right thing even though it doesn't benefit you, you have my sincere thanks! I'll buy you guys a beer any time! :beer:

 

[tubelcane]

What was I thinking? I was out in the sun most of the day. I see your point, but there can't be many of those left, not nearly enough to staff the airline if the rest walk. It probably won't come to that, but I believe there are preparations being taken, if negotiations come to another halt.

 

[humveedriver]

I expect to be compensated for that loss in career expectations.

Dude... where's my career??

Anyway, you posted twice after this thread... so I know you are not holding your breath!

 

[Lear70]

Dude... where's my career??

Anyway, you posted twice after this thread... so I know you are not holding your breath!

LOL... very true, I'm not. Making other preparations just like everyone else who stands to get stuck as an F/O for twice as long as planned, "just in case".

Hopefully they won't be needed,,, not making any drastic decisions until I see the final T.A. that gets voted in and the Midwest acquisition/seniority issue is settled.

 

[In The Wind]

It's lose lose for all now, hopfully you guys a save us all and send a clear messege to your Mgt.

 

[Just thinking]

Just say NO.This will send a strong signal to BOTH sides of the negotiating table. As a pilot group we do an outstanding job of keeping this airline on time and go above and beyond for customer service, efficiency, safety and providing a quality product for an economical price. We have demonstrated our unity as a pilot group by protecting each other after 9/11. Show our unity by voting a resounding NO. Scope, schedule language, and FO pay as well as cost of living adjustments are critical. I am proud of the pilot group and it's part in the productivity of this company. We have a great product and a great pilot group. True negotiations have only started happening this year. Everything else has been peacocks strutting around the table. Just say no and put them to work.

 

[jimcav]

I love this place and I believe in it. However I will not vote yes for anything that decreases qol. I also want to see a substantial increase in fo pay because a lot of you guys may be in that seat for a while. I don't think there are enough of the "I got mine" crowd to get a pos deal through. Oh yeah and I'd like a decent pay raise myself.

 

[pit717]

u dah man jimmy.......well spoken

 

[pit717]

oh and maybe we could start hiring flight attendants from maxim......u should have seen one the other day ....oh man

 

[jimcav]

oh and maybe we could start hiring flight attendants from maxim......u should have seen one the other day ....oh man

Uhhh... Did you score?

 

[DonVerita]

Going from a 12 hr. duty day to a 13 hr. duty day is an automatic "NO" vote from me. All a 13 hour duty day will result in is more aircraft swaps and longer/more frequent sits.

 

[c9skytrain]

Does anyone mind if I read the proposed T/A before I say how I am going to vote?

 

[twepilot]

are you serious??? Aren't we supposed to always vote no on the first one?

RV

 

[Lear70]

Does anyone mind if I read the proposed T/A before I say how I am going to vote?

No, we don't mind at all what you do.

We're just discussing our minimum requirements from a contract. You can do whatever you like.

Going from a 12 hr. duty day to a 13 hr. duty day is an automatic "NO" vote from me. All a 13 hour duty day will result in is more aircraft swaps and longer/more frequent sits.

Rest assured the company will *PROMISE* that it will result in LESS sits, because "if we only had one more hour to play with, we could fly you on a turn instead of sit you for 3 hours"...

And maybe it will... but they'd better be prepared to do away with sits with stricter language on required hotels for more than, say, a 2 hour sit, scheduled or rescheduled, or perhaps DOUBLE pay for every leg AFTER a 2 hour or greater scheduled or rescheduled sit.

If we're going to be sitting less, it won't bother them to sign for language that guarantees it, right?

are you serious??? Aren't we supposed to always vote no on the first one?

I know you're only kidding (mostly), but I've always wondered about this. You'll get a pilot who will spend an entire day haggling over $100 bucks on a used car lot, but will take the first offer presented him in a contract.

Unless it's just an absolute STEAL, no one EVER takes the first offer.

Just a thought.

 

[TV9Driver]

the difference is though, it's not the "first offer" but rather the first agreement between management and our union. Not quite the same thing...

as you can tell, i've got nothing else to do this afternoon......

 

[DougCorp-9]

Going from a 12 hr. duty day to a 13 hr. duty day is an automatic "NO" vote from me. All a 13 hour duty day will result in is more aircraft swaps and longer/more frequent sits.

I'll be happy to give them a 13 hour duty day, just show me the 1 for 2 duty rig and the 5.5 hour hard minimum day.

 

[75M]

You guys are gonna drive yourself nuts. There's not even a TA yet. I can't blame anybody for voting down a TA once it is presented for ratification, but to do so now is ludicrous. There are arguments for both sides on whether to vote down a TA without looking at it, but I tend to think that a it's worth the time to read it.

 

[Lear70]

the difference is though, it's not the "first offer" but rather the first agreement between management and our union. Not quite the same thing...

True...

as you can tell, i've got nothing else to do this afternoon......

Me either, obviously. Other than taking breaks while working on cars and trucks.

 

[pit717]

uhhhh........no ....as usual

 

[DougCorp-9]

Does the blackout have anything to do with Bravo Delta's website being down?

His site is still down this morning. Has anyone heard as to why?

 

[The Victors]

You guys need to take a lesson from the APA

 

[Lear70]

You guys need to take a lesson from the APA

Agreed. Just talked with one of the higher-up union guys and they said that the target rates from the DVD are still their target rates and are in their proposal and little, if any retro can be expected.

Which means effectively a 5% pay raise ($2 to $3 dollars) each year over the term of the contract for the F/O's, leaving us firmly in the bottom 10% of major airline pay for F/O's.

While the CA's are looking at 15% raises initially, up to 45% by the end of the contract term which is essentially a $20 raise up front, up to $60 an hour towards the end).

That doesn't sound very equitable to me.

I also verified the 13 hour assignable duty day change with no change in the max (still out to 16 hours) and the elimination of the reserve pay system currently in place, not to mention zero increases in soft credits (rigs). Both of those are in scheduling Section 5 which has already been T.A.'d, so those are definitely what's coming out.

I told them because of that and the lack of any real F/O pay raise, they could count on my immediate No vote.

Pretty p*ssed off right now. I think the CA's SHOULD get a pay raise, but shooting for $20 an hour and we get barely over 10% of that isn't a fair solution.

p.s. I also heard progress was made on the Merger / Acquisition language and that it's the strongest any airline contract has ever had. They said Scope was hung up on 100-seat jets. Company wants unlimited use, union wants time limits put on them as an "experimental" basis, then they have to get rid of them or bring them in with OUR pilots flying them at OUR rates.

 

[Ty Webb]

Just say NO.This will send a strong signal to BOTH sides of the negotiating table. As a pilot group we do an outstanding job of keeping this airline on time and go above and beyond for customer service, efficiency, safety and providing a quality product for an economical price. We have demonstrated our unity as a pilot group by protecting each other after 9/11. Show our unity by voting a resounding NO. Scope, schedule language, and FO pay as well as cost of living adjustments are critical. I am proud of the pilot group and it's part in the productivity of this company. We have a great product and a great pilot group. True negotiations have only started happening this year. Everything else has been peacocks strutting around the table. Just say no and put them to work.

Excellent post, you've said it all, and said it well.


.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

5% all I can say is noooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! and a new job, that really sucks because I like it here.

 

[mad691]

4. Duty periods for all pairings will be scheduled as below:

Max Duty Period Report Time​

​

Max Duty Period Scheduled Time​

​

Actual Maximum​

​

0500-1059​

​

13 Hours​

​

15 Hours​

​

1100-1659​

​

12 Hours​

​

14 Hours​

​

1700-1959​

​

11 Hours​

​

13 Hours​

​

2000-0459​

​

10 Hours​

​

12 Hours​

​

Charter​

​

13 Hours​

​

15 Hours​

​

More to the 13 hour duty day

 

[TV9Driver]

FO pay should be 2/3 of Captain pay - anything less is unacceptable. That is considered industry standard. I'm interested to see how many captains will vote NO if the FO pay rates are too low and the Captain pay rates are good. I doubt that we'd be able to count on them.