AirTran MEC CYA

[freightdogfred]

SWA pilots didn't fear arbitration because of where the list would have ended up. We wanted a negotiated agreement because we were told by management that they would operate you separately for long term despite our contract and ensuing court battle if we didn't make that happen. No rumors or innuendo. I was in the room when that was told to us very clearly and directly. Of course I voted no anyway, but 86? percent of us fell for it. Don't think your silly pipe dreams had anything to do with the decision.

To those of you on the FAT side who can't get over your discontent, you keep threatening the "poisoning" of the employee group for decades to come... And it is a threat. Whether you'll be an ass in the cockpit forever, or call in sick for all the holidays, or whatever it is you plan to do for revenge - we'll get through it. The only one you are going to really hurt is yourself! With that much stress you'll surely die young, ruin personal relationships, divorce, etc.

So go ahead. Ruin your life because you think you were treated unfairly. Many OSW think we got the shaft in all of this too. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm prepared to sit on the bottom and commute to weekends for the next 10 years. I can't change it. Instead I'm going to try to look at the bright side and continue to get my financial house in order in the event that [1+1=less than two] rears its ugly head and I move further backward.

In the meantime, I'm going to wave when I pass you in the terminal, even when I'm ignored... I'm going to chat with you in line at the food court, even when I'm given the evil eye... I'm going to continue to try and be pleasant in the face of this unpleasant reality because you didn't cause this merger just like we didn't cause it. We're all just bystanders.

Good post. Reverse the OSW and FAT, and it's exactly how many of us feel on the other side of the fence.

 

[GoodTimes]

PCL,

Somewhere, someone told you that the Golden Rule and SWA went hand-in-hand. You bought it, pinned your SLI dreams to it, and now find yourself bitter and disappointed.

Sounds to me like your having a tough time coming to grips with the fact that the industry bent you over for the first time in your career.

You'll get over it. Or not.

Welcome to the airlines.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

Somewhere, someone told you that the Golden Rule and SWA went hand-in-hand. You bought it, pinned your SLI dreams to it, and now find yourself bitter and disappointed.

Oh no, not at all. My expectation is always that management is a bunch of lying snakes. I expected nothing different here, and I wasn't disappointed. I just want you guys to admit that the culture is a sham, and the golden rule at SWA is a myth.

 

[GoodTimes]

I can't speak for outsiders, but as an employee, the company's always treated me exceptionally well. Far better than any previous airline. I'd love to make you feel better and tell you it's all just a sham, but I'm afraid I can't. I've competed against SWA and seen friends bet against them in the late 90s. All I can say is, more often than not, the company seems to find a way to win. The only difference is which side you're on. You obviously found that out the hard way. I'll always be convinced, however, that SWA initially made you an extremely fair offer. Things went downhill when you and your compadres tried to play poker and lost. I suppose eventually you'll man up and own your role in that fiasco. Until then, hoping for words from the other side to ease your pain won't help.

 

[Tripower455]

PCL,

Somewhere, someone told you that the Golden Rule and SWA went hand-in-hand. You bought it, pinned your SLI dreams to it, and now find yourself bitter and disappointed.

Sounds to me like your having a tough time coming to grips with the fact that the industry bent you over for the first time in your career.

You'll get over it. Or not.

Welcome to the airlines.

PCL will never admit it, but he is one of the few folks that made out like a bandit in this debacle, more so than any OSW and even most FAT guys. If he comes over and doesn't get himself fired, he will, due to his age, be very senior on the combined list for many years.

This industry is littered with pilots that HAVE actually been bent over by it, that would give their left arms to be "bent over" in the way that he claims he's been.

 

[fletch717]

I can't speak for outsiders, but as an employee, the company's always treated me exceptionally well. Far better than any previous airline. I'd love to make you feel better and tell you it's all just a sham, but I'm afraid I can't. I've competed against SWA and seen friends bet against them in the late 90s. All I can say is, more often than not, the company seems to find a way to win. The only difference is which side you're on. You obviously found that out the hard way. I'll always be convinced, however, that SWA initially made you an extremely fair offer. Things went downhill when you and your compadres tried to play poker and lost. I suppose eventually you'll man up and own your role in that fiasco. Until then, hoping for words from the other side to ease your pain won't help.

Based on the sale of the 717 the first offer was a sham. There were no seat protections with the loss of A/C . If you say the 717's were never going to be a part of the fleet, then SWA knowingly duped us into an agreement which they never intended to follow. Some on this board say "WE" should have known the 71 would never stay. That is NOT what we were told by SWA mgmt. We had an airplane that was profitable and no reason to believe SWA would lie. SWA was strong arming us but had yet to Lie, so we bought their story and voted for SIA2. SWA used the threat of getting rid of the 717 and alluded to possible furloughs to get the SIA2 vote yes. So in fact they were talking out of both sides of their mouth. These are the facts and That is why there is a DRC case pending.

 

[Dash Power]

I for one wouldn't mind to do a vote on this SLI again.

From what I have learned I would change my vote to no. I think most of the SWA pilots would. 17% were smarter than I.

And I would bet that most of the FAT would still vote yes.

 

[Herkdrv]

PCL will never admit it, but he is one of the few folks that made out like a bandit in this debacle, more so than any OSW and even most FAT guys. If he comes over and doesn't get himself fired, he will, due to his age, be very senior on the combined list for many years.

This industry is littered with pilots that HAVE actually been bent over by it, that would give their left arms to be "bent over" in the way that he claims he's been.

Isn't this the same clown that bought his first aviation job?

 

[Kharma Police]

I for one wouldn't mind to do a vote on this SLI again.

From what I have learned I would change my vote to no. I think most of the SWA pilots would. 17% were smarter than I.

And I would bet that most of the FAT would still vote yes.

Give it a shot, let us know how it goes....

 

[PCL_128]

PCL will never admit it, but he is one of the few folks that made out like a bandit in this debacle, more so than any OSW and even most FAT guys. If he comes over and doesn't get himself fired, he will, due to his age, be very senior on the combined list for many years.

This industry is littered with pilots that HAVE actually been bent over by it, that would give their left arms to be "bent over" in the way that he claims he's been.

I'm not much interested in where I'll be on the list at the age of 60, because that's all too speculative. Primarily, it requires you to assume that no further mergers will take place, and I consider the chances of that are pretty much nil. The reality of the SLI for me for the foreseeable future is commuting to the west coast, having much less time at home, flying a schedule I don't like, and upgrade being a faraway dream. The only people who truly did well in this merger on our side of the partition are the guys who live in or close to SWA domiciles that don't require significant seniority to hold. That's about it.

 

[Ty Webb]

I for one wouldn't mind to do a vote on this SLI again.

From what I have learned I would change my vote to no. I think most of the SWA pilots would. 17% were smarter than I.

And I would bet that most of the FAT would still vote yes.

You must be Wave's cavemate. . . . :laugh:

Seriously, if you want a real snapshot of how that would go down over here, just take a look at the awards for 717CA to SWA737 . . . They are going so junior, they will likely have to start junior-assigning for the August class.

Yes, you read that correctly. They are going to have to force pilots to leave 717CA for SWA. If life at SWA really involves a payraise, better QOL, etc, don't you think that outta 400+ pilots, they would have at least SOME takers?

Just a little something to contemplate, when you come out of your cave.

 

[redflyer65]

Oh no, not at all. My expectation is always that management is a bunch of lying snakes. I expected nothing different here, and I wasn't disappointed. I just want you guys to admit that the culture is a sham, and the golden rule at SWA is a myth.

No sham and no myth.


The culture is alive and well PCL. You have to see it going on around you to believe it. Actually, I went to some lengths to help a FA retrive her cell phone today. She couldn't believe I stepped in, but she would have done the same if needed. There's no other airline that compares in this regard.

I could give you plenty of personal examples to prove this, but some of these things are personal are better left to one on one conversation instead of FI.

RF

 

[canyonblue]

We had an airplane that was profitable ...

You mean a leasing company had an airplane...

 

[Tripower455]

I'm not much interested in where I'll be on the list at the age of 60, because that's all too speculative. Primarily, it requires you to assume that no further mergers will take place, and I consider the chances of that are pretty much nil. The reality of the SLI for me for the foreseeable future is commuting to the west coast, having much less time at home, flying a schedule I don't like, and upgrade being a faraway dream. The only people who truly did well in this merger on our side of the partition are the guys who live in or close to SWA domiciles that don't require significant seniority to hold. That's about it.

As I said, you made out like a bandit compared to just about everyone else in this deal.

 

[GoodTimes]

Based on the sale of the 717 the first offer was a sham. There were no seat protections with the loss of A/C . If you say the 717's were never going to be a part of the fleet, then SWA knowingly duped us into an agreement which they never intended to follow. Some on this board say "WE" should have known the 71 would never stay. That is NOT what we were told by SWA mgmt. We had an airplane that was profitable and no reason to believe SWA would lie. SWA was strong arming us but had yet to Lie, so we bought their story and voted for SIA2. SWA used the threat of getting rid of the 717 and alluded to possible furloughs to get the SIA2 vote yes. So in fact they were talking out of both sides of their mouth. These are the facts and That is why there is a DRC case pending.

Sorry you feel that way. This is a dynamic industry and things change fast. What'd they promise you as an AAI new-hire? You've been around long to know the game. Good luck with the DRC. It'd be a shame to be disappointed twice.