AirTran MEC Chair message.

[redflyer65]

This speaks volumes. He is already getting a wonderful reputation at SWA and he isnt even here yet. Must be proud.

Oh boy. I'll need a double now.

 

[dh82dvr]

And see, that's the problem. You were negotiating from a personal perspective of "it won't get any worse for me, and can only get better".

Many of us won't be that lucky. I will go from whatever weekends and holidays I want off, 18 days a month off, to back on reserve at a decent base (unless I choose a 5 hour commute to OAK or LAS which isn't going to happen).

Basically I give up all my quality of life for money. And my fiance' and I do just fine on the money I make now... many of us would rather have had the seniority.

So now that it's over, and the seniority is lost forever, many people just have a "get what you can get" mentality moving forward, and why not? Nothing else is really fixable.

For you it may be a wash, for most of us, it sucks, and is simply going to take time to get over. We will, but it will take time, and a bunch of other people telling us to hurry up and get over it doesn't help either. No one can dictate other people's attitudes, we have to get there on our own.

Isn't that a personal perspective as well?

At this point it is what it is. There are 2 choices left for everyone. Look for the positives and look to the future or dwell on what might have been, what you lost and how much it sucks.

I know what I would rather do.

Cheers
:beer:

 

[Lear70]

Lear is full of poop.

Opinions vary...

He pushed hard to get the 7 to 1 vote. He has no room to complain, criticize, or talk. He lobbied hard and got exactly what he wanted. He then went to Dallas and got us this deal.

You're d*mn right I did. The first deal sucked. The second deal still sucks, it just sucks less for seniority than the first one, but sucks worse for pay. Even the Merger Committee and the rest of the NC during both road shows and voting said the same thing. "The deal sucks".

The problem was, and two members of the MC and I went rounds over this on more than one occasion, was that NO ONE was detailing the "threats" BEFORE the first vote. NO ONE was... at least not to us. Not Gary Kelly, not the MEC, not even the MC during PRIVATE phone calls about the deal. Both Max and Frank (who lurks on this board but almost never posts) were talking to me during negotiations from time to time and neither ONE of them said JACK SH*T about threats.

The last conversation I had with Frank just two days before the MEC meeting was "This deal sucks and is ridiculous, I just don't see how I can vote for it if there's no threat of non-integration. What are the odds they don't integrate us if we go to arbitration?" He said, directly to me, it may take a couple years but integration will happen, so vote how you need to.

If he really felt there were threats, knowing I was in close contact with the MEC and helping push for a "No" vote, maybe a little more clarification of the threats he and Max later started voicing to everyone would have had me (and many others) pushing in a different direction.

There's plenty of blame to go around. I accept my role in rejecting the first one, I just wish I'd known then what they claim they told the MEC.

And as far as the second deal, that wasn't negotiations. That was taking whatever you can get under duress. The MEC knew they were about to lose the pilot group, promised SWA management they would put whatever came out for vote, and that, ladies and gentleman, leaves absolutely ZERO negotiating leverage.

If you're negotiating with someone and you KNOW they have to take WHATEVER you give them, short of completely robbing them, what incentive do you have to really negotiate? You're just going to dictate terms... and that's what happened. It was begging for scraps - any attempt to get anything major back was met with "Sorry, but no". And with no way for US to say "Sorry, but no", well... the agreement we have shows exactly how that works.

He only ignored 86 percent of us.

You and I both know that's bullsh*t. Take away the threat of non-integration and you don't have an 86% vote for that SIA, not a chance in hell. We'd be starting to implement the arbitrator's decision about now if the Process Agreement had been followed and integration hadn't been threatened.

Shoulda woulda coulda, we've been all through that, but don't take your anger out on me, when I'm not the one who threatened your job and took everything the Process Agreement was designed to do and said "we don't have to do that".

 

[Lear70]

Excuse me while I get some popcorn.

:beer:

No need, there's nothing to discuss.

He's making assertions about a conversation he wasn't present for.

As I've said before, the Negotiating Committee didn't really negotiate with SWAPA. The Merger Committee did for the actual "list", but the Negotiating Committee did 90% of our negotiating directly with Southwest, much of which SWAPA wasn't even present for because it dictated changes to our CBA alone.

I don't take it personally. How could he know about a conversation he wasn't present for?

 

[Lear70]

This speaks volumes. He is already getting a wonderful reputation at SWA and he isnt even here yet. Must be proud.

So wait, let me get this straight, because I thought Southwest admired "warrior spirit"...?

So I fight for the benefit of our pilot group, do it in a respectful manner, don't call people names, don't scream at them, don't threaten them, but simply say "I don't think that's fair, here's what I DO think is fair, and why", and suddenly I'm some kind of negative element?

Then, when it's done and I resign myself to what has happened, try to work within the confines of the Agreement and the RLA to continue to improve our pilots' situation until we're all one work group, while simultaneously telling people to stay calm, wait to see what can be worked out, and continue to do their jobs in the admirable and professional way they always have, and again, I'm the bad guy?

You need to explain this to me, because in my world, that's what responsible union leaders do. And watching SWAPA reps, that's what THEY to do as well, even when it steps on our toes, but when they do it, it's OK and when we do it, it's bad?

Again, if you can explain why one is bad and the other is not, I'd love to hear it...

 

[Lear70]

Isn't that a personal perspective as well?

Absolutely.

At this point it is what it is. There are 2 choices left for everyone. Look for the positives and look to the future or dwell on what might have been, what you lost and how much it sucks.

If you look back on all my posts for the last several months, that's what I was doing as well...

It's not until OTHER people stir crap up that I'm forced to respond. If people would quit antagonizing each other, we'd all get through this easier and faster.

 

[Britpilot]

He pushed hard to get the 7 to 1 vote. He has no room to complain, criticize, or talk. He lobbied hard and got exactly what he wanted.

That was the problem.
The "Hated Eight" or "The Magnificent Seven" bowed to a couple hundred emails. The decision to vote on SLI 1 should have been made by the pilots, period.

It doesn't matter anymore, however, as we all have to live with this.

 

[Flyer1015]

Curious, what was the gun hanging over their head (threat)? What if SLI method #2 was voted down by the AAI group?

 

[EngineThunder]

Curious, what was the gun hanging over their head (threat)? What if SLI method #2 was voted down by the AAI group?

Non integration.

 

[St. Nic]

Just saw a Southwest 737-800 in fresh southwest paint- looked good!