AirTran MEC Chair message.

[Dan Roman]

It says nothing.

You made a very pathetic PFT slam that was incorrect. You are not required to buy a type to come to SWA and you know it. Yet you make the slam anyway as if that is going to somehow hurt our feelings.

I don't for the life of me understand why d0uches like you are so obsessed with the inner workings of SWA. You have your own issues. Standing shoulder to shoulder with your ALPA brothers and sisters taking back the profession being one of them. :laugh:

What is "bying" a type anyway?

Actually, it was a cheap shot at Quitflight as he opened himself up for it and deserved it. Personally I don't have a problem with anyone buying a type to further their education or employability any more than people use to buy flight engineer ratings to get an airline job. I think it's the same thing.

 

[Ty Webb]

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[texman]

So on a serious note, what does the AT group want? What is ALPA doing in the big D. Rumors? So is it the pay thing till the group comes over? Insurance? Or SWAPA representation? Just a question?

 

[humveedriver]

From AT MEC Chair...

Fellow Southwest Pilots (Uh, what?!),

Yes, I just did that, and for good reason. We are all Southwest pilots. (No WE are not.)

I know what you’re thinking, so before you start sending me nasty e-mails threatening my dog, let me explain.

Think back to the SWAPA Round-ups and the presentations made during the road shows for the seniority integration agreement. The overriding theme was that when we had an SIA, and after the Date of Corporate Closing (DOCC) and after the Single Operating Certificate (SOC) was granted, that we would be Southwest pilots and treated as such. However, the reality doesn’t look like what we expected. (Things change.)

We don’t feel like Southwest pilots. (You shouldn't because you're not. Comprende?) Or at least we don’t feel like we think Southwest pilots should feel (I'm sorry Oprah, what was that?), and that’s not good. It’s not good for us; it’s not good for the Company.

We are all too familiar with the history of the seniority integration process, and the contentiousness that it brought. There were many arguments, even among close friends, and many scars from that engagement. At times it felt like civil war.

Eventually, with a transition plan in place, things began to settle down. Despite our future loss of seniority (here we go...), I think we began to move on. There were a few small improvements to our quality of life: reduced insurance costs, a kinder-gentler scheduling department, new leadership in the training department, and Rob Amsler in the Chief Pilot’s Office. It was just a morsel of the Southwest culture.(You were lucky to get those considering you're not Southwest pilots.)

But then, as it often seems to do, the other shoe dropped. Southwest announced the B-717 sublease tentative agreement with Delta. (If this came as a surprise to any of you, you deserve to feel like a moron.)

In an instant, all of the goodwill and trust that management had worked to cultivate with our pilots vanished. Gone. Kaput. (Guess it wasn't true "trust" in the first place.) On top of that, some of the messaging from SWAPA on the day the B-717 deal was announced was read by many of our pilots as gloating. (You guys appear more and more sensitive with each passing day.)

Can these problems be fixed? I hope so — and believe so — not for only for our sakes, but for the sake of our Company. (At the rate the Tranny's are screwing up in transition training and failing IOE, it's doubtful there will be enough of you left to do any noticeable harm.)

First of all, we are all Southwest pilots. (Hasn't this been covered already?) It is time that we are recognized as such. (Why? You work for Critter therefore you are not SWA pilots.) There is only one master seniority list, and our names are on it, intertwined with our friends and colleagues across the partition. We are not in a “pool” waiting for a seniority number — we already have one; we fly Southwest owned and leased airplanes with a different paint scheme; and, our corporate address is no longer Orlando, Florida — it is Love Field, in Dallas, Texas, the home of our (Not yours) company, Southwest Airlines.

The MEC has tasked our Negotiating Committee with engaging the company (read: begin whining more loudly NC!) to ease the burden of this transition on our pilots — the Southwest pilots represented by ALPA. (For the record, there are currently NO SWA pilots represented by ALPA. There never have been.) Yesterday, the NC started that process by meeting with management in Dallas. The conversation was wide-ranging and overall could be described as fairly productive. To continue our talks, we are making arrangements to schedule a follow-up meeting in the coming weeks.

On Monday, Captain Jim Gallagher and I will join ALPA executive administrator Capt. Tim Canoll and ALPA Directors Bruce York and Jon Cohen in Dallas for a meeting with SWAPA to move forward the process of transferring representation. While I believe the events of the past few weeks demonstrate the benefit of ALPA to our pilots, it is in the long-term interest of all Southwest pilots to have a single voice (This is actually a valid point. So you're up to 1 now.), regardless of the color of the airplane they are flying. It is also important that SWAPA recognize that former AirTran pilots will soon comprise almost a quarter of their membership, and it is to their benefit to consider the impact of their actions and statements on the future of the organization in a post-SOC world. (Was that a threat?)

I spent most of this week meeting with the MEC, discussing these issues. For a while, we were joined by Southwest Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer Mike Van de Ven as well as Southwest Executive Vice President & Chief Commercial Officer Bob Jordan. We shared with them all of the feedback that you have given us over the past few weeks, both good and bad. We were brutally honest and I think they appreciated it. I also think they now understand that there is a unique opportunity for the Company to demonstrate the values for which it is famous, not the least of which is its commitment to its employees. (Good thing you cleared that up for them. Amazing they were able to do it for 40+ years without you Jim.)

Having spent four years in Missouri, the “Show Me State,” I learned a good deal about Midwestern values and skepticism. True character is displayed through action, not words. (If this is true, could you ask your pilots to shut up and color? Come to work as a SWA pilot AFTER completing transition training and IOE with hat in hand like the rest of us did. Be quiet, play nice, fly, get paid and go home.) This is the time for Southwest management to show me, and you, that we are all an integral part of the team. I trust that they will. (Don't count on it.)

I’ll see you at the airport.

Capt. Jim Morris, Chairman
Your ATN Master Executive Council (ATN? Thought you said you were SWA ALPA...)

Wow, somebody isn't coping with all the change very well. When the next round of changes happen or message is released, could somebody post the YouTube link of quiet flight's head exploding?

 

[humveedriver]

So on a serious note, what does the AT group want? What is ALPA doing in the big D. Rumors? So is it the pay thing till the group comes over? Insurance? Or SWAPA representation? Just a question?

I'm not a union guy, but my impression is;

1. Representation
2. Pay parity
3. Attempt to get past the us vs them mentality

Most of us read QF's post at this point and think... Yeah, that's going to make for a long four day. If you can't see how the 717 leaving early (not "you" specifically Tex) is a major morale breaker for the AT side then don't worry about it. I realize the merger of pilot groups was a kick to the scrotum for the junior SWA guys and why ROR would be huge to them. But to me it should be one or the other. Let me as a former AT captain be a senior FO in base of my choice. Or pay protect me at SWA Capt and do what ever you want. I'm guessing my solution is not a popular one at the SWA water cooler.

 

[texman]

I'm not a union guy, but my impression is;

1. Representation
2. Pay parity
3. Attempt to get past the us vs them mentality

Most of us read QF's post at this point and think... Yeah, that's going to make for a long four day. If you can't see how the 717 leaving early (not "you" specifically Tex) is a major morale breaker for the AT side then don't worry about it. I realize the merger of pilot groups was a kick to the scrotum for the junior SWA guys and why ROR would be huge to them. But to me it should be one or the other. Let me as a former AT captain be a senior FO in base of my choice. Or pay protect me at SWA Capt and do what ever you want. I'm guessing my solution is not a popular one at the SWA water cooler.

Well crap, I wish us all the best of luck. I would love to see how this Plays out. SWAPA has said they have no reason to believe the transition will drag out past Jan 1, 2015. I don't even know what's going on anymore.

 

[redflyer65]

I wish the Airtran guys good luck on the pay parity thing, but I don't think there's a chance in hell of this going anywhere. I don't mean to bust any bubbles but the money was in the first agreement that was voted down by the MEC, and now its long gone. I always thought it best for the AAI guys to get over here ASAP on that open bid. Some decided they wanted better quality of life on the 717. Even before all of this, I thought that was a mistake. We've all made our votes. I don't see Gary changing anything. Maybe announcing ATL as a base. Thats about it.

 

[humveedriver]

Well crap, I wish us all the best of luck. I would love to see how this Plays out. SWAPA has said they have no reason to believe the transition will drag out past Jan 1, 2015. I don't even know what's going on anymore.

Just to clarify; I don't think the AT union or pilot group is expecting much at this point. But it never hurts to ask. Also, 2015 is going to be here sooner than you think. Its better to get ahead of these issues. You can't table everything for tommorow.

 

[Lear70]

I think we can all agree Southwest has more nationwide brand recognition/revenue potential than AirTran. Does anyone really think the AirTran brand will still be around past mid 2015?

Yes. I believe it will be around until the last 717 leaves property for Delta and the last 737 transitions to Southwest which, according to press release and memos to us from management, means almost the end of 2015. What part of "36 717's to Delta in 2015 at 3 per month" do you not believe?

It wouldn't matter if the AirTran pilots would take voluntary 50% pay cuts. The AirTran side of the partition is going to turn into a cash drain as flying gets transferred heavily to SWA starting after summer season 2013.

Have to disagree with you there. Our international flying has higher yields than almost anything domestic we operate. You're going to take marginal domestic feed and kill it as the 717's transition to Delta and leave yourself with increasingly only-737 routes, including the International.

AirTran is going to continue to be profitable right up to the last year when the infrastructure to support the AirTran operation (Dispatchers, etc) becomes more than the revenue stream produced by the last 36 717's to leave and the last 30+ 737's to cross over.

There's plenty of airlines (Allegiant) that continue to do well with a small fleet.

Why would Gary Kelly ever voluntarily agree to increase the operating costs $80-100 million on the AirTran side of the partition? Where is the leverage to make that happen? NMB? Corporate culture?

That's what I've been saying. I think Southwest management is *SAYING* the right things, but so far they haven't done a thing to back it up on our side of the partition. Not to be rude, but saying "We get it, we understand" and actually doing something are two different things.

Everyone is making less money than they were this time last year, working less efficient trips, more days away from home, less commutable, and now they gutted a major part of the SIA that you helped negotiate, which included your CA seat. You're telling me that's OK with you?

When the 717 Agreement comes out, if there's not a way for the pilots who want to transition to Delta with them in the deal (I'd bet a solid 1/3 of our pilots would be happy to go) and/or there's no addressing the pay rates and loss of Captain seats, things will likely get a lot worse on the line.

Whether that's leverage or not remains to be seen. It's really their choice.

 

[Lear70]

I wish the Airtran guys good luck on the pay parity thing, but I don't think there's a chance in hell of this going anywhere. I don't mean to bust any bubbles but the money was in the first agreement that was voted down by the MEC, and now its long gone.

No, the money is still there, they just decided it wasn't worth trying to buy our happiness on the 2nd deal but rather use a different set of tactics, which "worked" from an approved deal perspective. However, now that same approach is yielding a group of very apathetic pilots.

I always thought it best for the AAI guys to get over here ASAP on that open bid. Some decided they wanted better quality of life on the 717. Even before all of this, I thought that was a mistake.

It doesn't even matter now, with the axing of the 717, people won't get over there any sooner and, in fact, those of us who bid 737 expecting to go over sooner now will have the exact OPPOSITE happen. I did the math, and it's questionable with the number of 737's they want to leave on this side of the partition, whether I can even GET to Southwest before those International aircraft transition over in late 2014 through 2015. Then it's even FURTHER complicated by the rate they send 717's to Delta and if they transition ANY more 737's and pilots over after they close MKE...

Bidding 737 actually might have HURT me if my goal was to get there ASAP. If I'd have bid 717 and trained in one of the first classes, I'd probably be there sooner than I will staying on the 737.

We've all made our votes. I don't see Gary changing anything. Maybe announcing ATL as a base. Thats about it.

That would suck right now.

If they open ATL anytime before most of our pilots are over, it's going to fill the base with OSW pilots, and by the time the majority of us get there, it could be years before we could hold the base.

Arguably, that wouldn't help our pilots at all, and certainly doesn't offset the loss of the 717 and the protections that went with it that we all voted for.