AirTran MEC Chair message.

[madjack]

In hindsight, the FL pilots that led the shootdown of SL9 deservedly shoulder the blame for any financial pain being felt on the ATN side of the partition...

 

[sfomarc]

I didn't vote for it, so I'll "cry" about it all I want, thanks. And you seem to be missing the point here: we were lied to and mislead by management during the voting process.

We were all lied to.

 

[Dan Roman]

In hindsight, the FL pilots that led the shootdown of SL9 deservedly shoulder the blame for any financial pain being felt on the ATN side of the partition...

Isn't true that when they voted the first time they were under the impression that if an acceptable agreement wasn't reached SWA would allow arbitration, but when the second offer came it included all kinds of threats should it not pass. Not the least was that SWA was not going to allow it to go to arbitration?

 

[waveflyer]

Wow Dan, let's everybody get back into it 4 seconds after having the same words, so Dan can catch up.

 

[redflyer65]

Isn't true that when they voted the first time they were under the impression that if an acceptable agreement wasn't reached SWA would allow arbitration, but when the second offer came it included all kinds of threats should it not pass. Not the least was that SWA was not going to allow it to go to arbitration?

Dan,

To be honest, we told them on here time and time again that you don't want to rattle the cage at the Southwest GO. Pretty much every AAI pilot on here, including PCL and Lear told us we were full of sh*t.

Then they tried to push the timeline on SL9 to the absolute limit to run out the clock for arbitration. We waited WEEKS for them to vote it down.

I hate to tell you I told you so, but I told you so.

The AAI pilots really need to focus their anger on the AAI MEC. They voted millions of dollars and increased furlough protection down. Period, end of story.

 

[Dan Roman]

Wow Dan, let's everybody get back into it 4 seconds after having the same words, so Dan can catch up.

Now Wave you don't have to be condescending about it. That's my impression, but the SWA folks on here seem to be so far from an opinion that would acknowledge that fact that I thought perhaps I was unaware of some details. I don't profess to have as much insight into this as those of you that are obviously much closer to this than I am.
But if what I said is in fact the reality of it, you folks on the SWA side are saying things that are indefensibly arrogant and wrong. Things like' Hey you voted for it!" or even worse, blaming the AirTran MEC when they negotiated in good faith, and SWA was the deceitful party.

 

[Dan Roman]

We posted at the same time Red, but ^^^^^^.
I don't see how you can blame the AirTran folks for believing SWA would be true to their word, and than when they weren't and stabbed them in the back, it's their fault??

 

[redflyer65]

Dan,

What part of 'the SW first deal is going to be the best', don't you understand?

Why couldn't the AAI MEC send it out to the members for a full vote?

It was a train wreck in the making. I was hoping they'd vote it in and we could all move forward together, but the MEC decided to throw mud in Gary's face. It was a sad how it turned out.

The reality is that the AAI MEC was stalling for arbitration. Gary didn't want that and stated it many, many times. Who won?

 

[Dan Roman]

I would say it's the MEC's job to do what they think will produce the best deal for the pilot's, period. If the deal was less than what they thought they at least could get in arbitration, than why would they put a "train wreck" out to the pilots to vote on? It's not their fault SWA went back on their word.

 

[redflyer65]

Simply,

Gary put his best deal on the table. The MEC wanted more. Unfortunately, the AAI pilots lost hundreds of thousands of dollars because the Fantastic Seven shut it down. I would have never voted against Gary and pushed sooo hard for arbitration. But hey, it's water under the bridge. We tried to tell them, they didn't care.

 

[Dan Roman]

When you said "you tried to tell them" did you include that Gary has no problem being deceitful? If he said it would go to arbitration if a deal wasn't reached in the beginning and than changed his tune, he lied. It's really that simple.
You can't blame the MEC for trying to play the game the way the rules were spelled out to them.

 

[Flyer1015]

I didn't vote for it, so I'll "cry" about it all I want, thanks. And you seem to be missing the point here: we were lied to and mislead by management during the voting process.

Lied to and mislead by management? Say it ain't so. You fell for it? How do you know when management is lying? When their lips are moving...

 

[vixin]

Exactly...now give it a rest and stop this madness.

 

[Quimby]

35 pages of this in 11 days?

Impressive.

 

[redflyer65]

When you said "you tried to tell them" did you include that Gary has no problem being deceitful? If he said it would go to arbitration if a deal wasn't reached in the beginning and than changed his tune, he lied. It's really that simple.
You can't blame the MEC for trying to play the game the way the rules were spelled out to them.

Dan,

The biggest problems here is that people are forgetting....


1- The AIRTRAN Negotiating Committee came up with this deal to begin with!

2- Why was there such a disconnect with the Airtran MEC to vote it down? (a horrible decision, they decided to run out the clock instead of sticking to the timeline)


This is what the AAI NC came up with. They thought it had merit.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well, I'll give you this, it's never as simple as any of us think. Mergers are complicated, emotional nightmares. I'm just hoping I never go through one!

 

[27 driver]

Dan,

The biggest problems here is that people are forgetting....


1- The AIRTRAN Negotiating Committee came up with this deal to begin with!

2- Why was there such a disconnect with the Airtran MEC to vote it down? (a horrible decision, they decided to run out the clock instead of sticking to the timeline)


This is what the AAI NC came up with. They thought it had merit.

Do you believe the ******************** you are spewing? There wasn't any negotiations. There was take it or find another job. Your livelihood was not on the line. Ours was.

 

[redflyer65]

27,

I believe there were at least 3 months of negotiation between the two NC's. Am I wrong?

I'm not debating what happened later, but there was plenty of meetings before Gary ever got involved.

 

[FlyinGuy]

The Process Agreement took way to long to hash out. Remember, "our lawyers are looking at it". It should/could have been done quickly which would have left much more time to negotiate the serious issues of the SLI. By the time it got down to the nitty gritty, time was running out and GK saw where this was headed. He was never going to let the fate of the pilots go to an arbitrator. You felt rushed and backed into a corner because there was no time left to continue lengthy negotiations after SL 9 went down. Could things have gone smoother? Probably, but my guess is that we would have ended up pretty close to where we are now. SWA pilots would never have voted in SL 9, so we would have been back at the table anyway. What would SL 10 look like if SWA voted it down? dunno. Bottom line is people on both sides are po'ed. That is the nature of negotiations. Hopefully we can all find some peace with where ever we end up and this company can continue to make money for all our sakes.

 

[SWA/FO]

To be honest, we told them on here time and time again that you don't want to rattle the cage at the Southwest GO. Pretty much every AAI pilot on here, including PCL and Lear told us we were full of sh*t.

Yep, told them the b*tch slap was coming. They didn't believe it.