Airtran may get some of Delta's gates in ATL

[airline#5]

Ty Webb,

The FO's at Midwest make more than the AT FO's, bad argument. See, they didn't throw there FO"S under the bus during contract neg.

 

[Lear70]

Lear I think your right.

Hows the fight going?

Slowly, but building momentum.

System Board is Mar. 12th & 13th. There's some new information that will come to light during System Board. Don't want to say what it is right now, will be out there soon enough, and I'll post more when System Board results are in.

Right now I'm trying to get face time with the two pilots who will be representing me at System Board so I can go over everything with them. Don't want to do it 3rd person through Sal or Mike, better to do it myself. Want to make sure they have ALL the evidence so that there's no chance they can side with the company and cite lack of information.

I have the right to be there, and I will definitely be taking advantage of that, heading down to MCO the night of the 11th. I'm thinking DL will be there as well.

Outside legal battles are currently in-progress as well. It would be nice if the company would simply reinstate me with back-pay and seniority when presented this information at System Board, save themselves a LOT of legal fees, and we all simply move on with life. We shall see...

 

[The Victors]

There's always been a price of doing business for large mergers, one of the things that's kept consolidation off for so long.


Evidently not.

You're talking about lease payments versus outright ownership, which is part of non-fuel CASM.

airTran's non-fuel CASM is quite a bit lower than Southwest's. Therefore, the leasing portion of the cost equation must either be better than outright ownership or is being offset in a MAJOR way with something else in the balance sheet.

Guess it helps that you guys continue to work for and except much less than industry standard wages. Get a real contract and then we'll talk about CASM.

 

[gt1900]

#5... Actually they don't. Hourly wage may be a little more at MEH but when you consider AAI's retirement then the AAI's compensation is better. Throw in the reserve pay at AAI and I don't think its even close. I could be wrong, but ask MEH reserve pilots how often they block 95+ hours of credit a month. Remember, theres more to compensation then just hourly wage..

 

[Lear70]

Guess it helps that you guys continue to work for and except much less than industry standard wages. Get a real contract and then we'll talk about CASM.

Sure, it would help, and you know I'm certainly not the person to argue that our pay is fantastic (and I know you're trying to zing one in), but here's a thought:

We could MATCH Southwest pay and we'd STILL have a lower non-fuel CASM.

That's right. DOUBLING our wages across the board would increase CASM probably around half a cent, and if I recall correctly (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong) we're under Southwest by 3/4 of a cent per ASM on non-fuel CASM last time I checked.

Pilot costs simply aren't that big of a piece of the puzzle in the CASM equation. We need to educate the pilots better about how CASM is computed and our part in it. AirTran's problem is Yield. Plain and Simple. We charge, on average, $10-15 less per ticket than Southwest ON ROUTES WE DON'T COMPETE ON. I don't understand that at all...

Other than that, you're absolutely right, our wages need to come up substantially to reflect the profitability of our company and our role in it. We're not the end-all be-all of the operation, but we play a very significant part in maintaining on-time, safety, and customer service. Those shouldn't be minimized.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

airline #5, If you call MDX pay rates holding the line your insane. We haven't been thrown under the bus yet. I feel that MB at this point is not going to hose us. But will see.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Your opinion, which concourse you think we will get all of A or B?

May you forever be stuck with ramp 3.... =)

 

[curtis46]

Ty Webb,

The FO's at Midwest make more than the AT FO's, bad argument. See, they didn't throw there FO"S under the bus during contract neg.

If i remember correctly we rejected those T/A having in mind our F/O on property and those not yet on property.
This week a few interviewees said they're coming to AT because they will be able to survive on first pay,thank to us for not throwing them under the bus.
The NPA and the company know that nothing will be sign w/o a substantial raise of F/O pay.
ps: saving my breath for the real battle.

 

[curtis46]

May you forever be stuck with ramp 3.... =)

To late,we're already stuck with ramp 3,4 and 5.

 

[curtis46]

J M thanks the pilot group this week for the millions on fuel saving we generated by flying the airplane a better fuel efficient profile ,as well as ground operation saving .
What's better,sharing the saving with happy pilots or no saving generated because of careless pilots?their call.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

If i remember correctly we rejected those T/A having in mind our F/O on property and those not yet on property.
This week a few interviewees said they're coming to AT because they will be able to survive on first pay,thank to us for not throwing them under the bus.
The NPA and the company know that nothing will be sign w/o a substantial raise of F/O pay.
ps: saving my breath for the real battle.

I guess that what happens when your on your 5th airline, your just piss off no matter what goes down.

 

[Lear70]

If i remember correctly we rejected those T/A having in mind our F/O on property and those not yet on property.

This week a few interviewees said they're coming to AT because they will be able to survive on first pay,thank to us for not throwing them under the bus.

Yup. I kept hearing "We're not going to negotiate for pilots who aren't even here yet"... and wanted to puke. Thanks, AP uke:

The NPA and the company know that nothing will be sign w/o a substantial raise of F/O pay.

Funny, certain people at the table in Washington were nearly frothing at the mouth when I said that very same thing.

There needs to be substantial gains for everyone, and no one gets thrown under the bus. The airTran pilots can be proud the stood up and did the right thing for the new-hires.

Your new F/O's will likely continue to thank you, if you're not openly angry the T.A. failed. Then they'll likely just keep it to themselves.

 

[maxblast72]

You can mention the bankruptcy and I'll talk about the Everglades....both dark times, both should be off the table.....

The "Delta Spazz"

The bankruptcy was just 2 years ago. The Everglades was over 12 years ago. The Delta creditors are still trying to get a return on their investment.

If you want to dig up old stuff, how about Delta non-stop no flap service from Euless, TX to Grapevine, TX back in the 1980's.

 

[maxblast72]

it wasn't taken as an attack on midwest, just stating air tran likes acting like a crow and picking at the dead. perhaps the call sign should be changed to "Scraps".

I don't know about "Scraps" but our airline has been called Scrappy by several financial analysts. And after 8 years of building a strong, profitable hub in the ATL, we have enough money to pick a few fights while developing some new markets in the eastern half of the US.

 

[BSkin]

You can mention the bankruptcy and I'll talk about the Everglades....both dark times, both should be off the table.....

The "Delta Spazz"

You are an a$$! Talk about an accident that was by no means the company's fault, and we still have many people on property that were friends w/ one or more of the crew. Compare the loss of life to a loss of business smarts, Lumberg, you need an a$$- whooping. I'd be happy to!

 

[CitationLover]

#5... Actually they don't. Hourly wage may be a little more at MEH but when you consider AAI's retirement then the AAI's compensation is better. Throw in the reserve pay at AAI and I don't think its even close. I could be wrong, but ask MEH reserve pilots how often they block 95+ hours of credit a month. Remember, theres more to compensation then just hourly wage..

we have an A plan and you don't. it matches your b plan in value when the early retirement subsidy kicks in. we also have a weak b plan based upon age (2%/4%/6%). do some research next time.

as for hating "Scraps", I'm simply following the path of gt1900, eagle757, and kharma who constantly bash midwest. it's not my fault joe leonard couldn't sell the airline better to the MEH board.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

SWA would move into ATL in a big way if they merged with AirTran.

cliff
GRB

PS-If DAL/NWA goes, then SWA says they WILL merge with someone.

 

[BSkin]

Hi!

SWA would move into ATL in a big way if they merged with AirTran.

cliff
GRB

PS-If DAL/NWA goes, then SWA says they WILL merge with someone.

Key word there is MERGE. I doubt SWA will merge, they will buy. As an FL 717 guy, I hope it's Alaska Airlines or Frontier.

On another note, anybody else heard the rumor that AAI has been looking into us? Hope that one's not true, we saw what they did to the TWA guys!

 

[Kharma Police]

we have an A plan and you don't. it matches your b plan in value when the early retirement subsidy kicks in. we also have a weak b plan based upon age (2%/4%/6%). do some research next time.

as for hating "Scraps", I'm simply following the path of gt1900, eagle757, and kharma who constantly bash midwest. it's not my fault joe leonard couldn't sell the airline better to the MEH board.

Who said I "bashed" MEH? We wanted the same thing (although you weren't even working at MEH at the time) to keep the two airlines separate. I thought your airline was a waste of money and not worth what we were offering from the beginning. My thoughts were that if we wanted to grow in that booming metropolis of Milwaukee we could, without MEH.

 

[CitationLover]

Who said I "bashed" MEH? We wanted the same thing (although you weren't even working at MEH at the time) to keep the two airlines separate. I thought your airline was a waste of money and not worth what we were offering from the beginning. My thoughts were that if we wanted to grow in that booming metropolis of Milwaukee we could, without MEH.

it was all a plot to steal our water like the state of georgia is doing to tennessee.

 

[FIREMAN]

it was all a plot to steal our water like the state of georgia is doing to tennessee.

What ? How can Georgia steal water from a state that is up stream ?

 

[Kharma Police]

You are an a$$! Talk about an accident that was by no means the company's fault, and we still have many people on property that were friends w/ one or more of the crew. Compare the loss of life to a loss of business smarts, Lumberg, you need an a$$- whooping. I'd be happy to!

You need to lay off Bill, my Gator friend. He took the bankruptcy quite personally and is quite sensitive about it. These are tough times for him, he understands that despite the pretty new paint job, not allot has changed with his companies business plan. And now, with the upcoming merger with the kind and benevolent employees of NWA, things will only be more stressful for the lad. So, please cut the guy some slack, let him point out flaws in our business model and rant about "unfair" subsidies and the Everglades, it's a good distraction for him to blame Delta's problems on AirTran. So Bill, please fire away, (just be ready for us to fire back).

 

[CitationLover]

What ? How can Georgia steal water from a state that is up stream ?

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/NEWS0201/802080435

thieves.

 

[SkiFishFly]

it was all a plot to steal our water like the state of georgia is doing to tennessee.

SHHH. How did you know we were loading up on MKE water and flying it back to Georgia??? This "operation" was only briefed to certain "select" individuals. You better watch your back now that they know that you know...

 

[CitationLover]

SHHH. How did you know we were loading up on MKE water and flying it back to Georgia??? This "operation" was only briefed to certain "select" individuals. You better watch your back now that they know that you know...

PSST. MKE water is dirty, pass it on.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Oh' I thought this was about gates in ATL.

Delta may just get its' gates back from SkyWest. Who's paying for the RJ jetways?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Key word there is MERGE. I doubt SWA will merge, they will buy.

True. Why would SWA merge and end up with an AirTran that costs more than it does today?

This is the part of the DAL/NWA that I do not get. The labor groups of both companies are going to try to pick the best of either contract. The result will be costs that are higher than they are currently for DAL/NWA. The real synergy of a merger is already being realized through codeshare and coordination on routes and markets.

 

[lowecur]

Fins

True. Why would SWA merge and end up with an AirTran that costs more than it does today?

This is the part of the DAL/NWA that I do not get. The labor groups of both companies are going to try to pick the best of either contract. The result will be costs that are higher than they are currently for DAL/NWA. The real synergy of a merger is already being realized through codeshare and coordination on routes and markets.

Well, there isn't anything in it for Wall St if that happens.

GL talks about Anderson telling CVG they have nothing to worry about, but I don't buy it. As profitable or unprofitable as some of these RJ hubs may or may not be, it's only a matter of time before they are history. I think MEM will be gone right from the getgo, with CVG to follow a slow death(2-4 yrs). SLC will be the exception because of it's strategic location, and the fact JBLU would move in a heartbeat.

Synergies are great, but it's the cutting of duplicate expenses and the increase in revenues that will drive future decisions.

imp:​

 

[General Lee]

Well, there isn't anything in it for Wall St if that happens.

GL talks about Anderson telling CVG they have nothing to worry about, but I don't buy it. As profitable or unprofitable as some of these RJ hubs may or may not be, it's only a matter of time before they are history. I think MEM will be gone right from the getgo, with CVG to follow a slow death(2-4 yrs). SLC will be the exception because of it's strategic location, and the fact JBLU would move in a heartbeat.

Synergies are great, but it's the cutting of duplicate expenses and the increase in revenues that will drive future decisions.

imp:​

I am glad you lowecur can see through Anderson's lies and the Congressmen/Senators cannot.... There is a lot riding on CVG remaining open for a lot of people, and that includes the politicians who will press for it in writing. Can that change eventually? Sure. But, the highest yields in our system and some very large corporate accounts will keep some service there, probably to large US cities, and maybe a couple INTL cities. A "focus" city maybe a better term, stolen from the JB guys...

You may be right about MEM, and I don't see us leaving SLC either. Future expansion I see is a continuation of build up at JFK (outside of slot times) and LAX.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

Hi!

SWA would move into ATL in a big way if they merged with AirTran.

cliff
GRB

PS-If DAL/NWA goes, then SWA says they WILL merge with someone.

I disagree. Southwest will BUY someone!

737