Airtran may get some of Delta's gates in ATL

[General Lee]

I don't believe the slots would be need to be given up due to overlapping flights. I think Airtran's argument with the DOJ about the merger is that the combined airline would have too big of a percentage of the total DC and NY slots. Thus, to get DOJ approval, some slots might have to be shed to allow more competition.

I don't know the exact details of the USAir/United combination, but there were going to be some assets freeing up in DC if those two ever got together back in 2000/2001. I wish I knew more about the DC Air and Potomac Airlines story.

It will be interesting to see if Delta/Northwest can put egos aside and get this thing put together with a DOJ blessing.

USAir has (had) a true hub at DCA during that period, excluding the USAir Shuttle. We, at LGA, have a NYC Shuttle, and a variety of Mainline flights to ATL, CVG, and some FLA cities, along with numerous CRJ flights. That is the bulk of it at LGA, and NWA (in our same terminal) has mainline flights to MSP, DTW, and MEM, with RJ flights to IND and maybe one or two to MKE. That's it at LGA. At DCA it is the same, with mainline flying (excluding Shuttle flights) to ATL, CVG, and SLC only, and some RJs to cities that nobody else flies to (JAN, BHM, MSY, LEX etc). NWA has the same at DCA---flights to MSP, DTW, MEM, and RJs to IND, MSN, GRR, and DSM. I doubt Airtran would go to those latter cities, and the others feed the NWA hubs. Not a lot to see there. NWA may be leasing some DCA slots to CAL (NWA used to have a DC9 base at DCA), but that is unclear.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Citrus531]

I can almost guarantee WN will get a few ATL gates if any become available even if it means outbidding FL for them.

Dealing with the daily headache of gate planning I can honestly say we would do WHATEVER it took to get additional gates in ATL should they become available. The 4 Northwest gates on D CON would come in handy since we already have D2/D4/D1A/D5/D9 and D11 on a regular basis.

The gates we have to call TBI airport management about everyday(D3/D1/D11A& and the E gates for terminators) are hit or miss everyday.

And it's funny how the higher ups in MCO and even ATL wonder why planes hold out with an ever changing flight schedule and 9 737 gates with 50 73's currently in the fleet.

 

[Speedtape]

The ATL NWA gates will be sold to Skywest not Southwest.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Don't kill the messenger. I'm just saying what's been heard around here, and what GK has already said in the press. That is that if there are assets in play, we will be doing the buying. If we can get gates in ATL without buying FL, then I'm sure we will do whatever it takes to acquire them.

 

[lowecur]

The Airtran CEO probably wishes for a lot of things. There will be some gates available probably, the ones NWA uses currently in ATL. As far as gates or slots at other airports (LGA, DCA, etc)--there are NO overlapping routes at any of those airports between NWA and DL. None. We both don't fly from LGA to MCO, or FLL, etc. Nope. NWA flies only to their own respective hubs (MSP, DTW, MEM, IND, and maybe MKE). We don't go to any of those places, and I am sure a combined carrier would still like to fly to those same places from DCA or LGA. IF there were redundant flights (just like redundant gates in ATL), then they would be put up for grabs. But, there are not. The Airtran CEO can still be hopeful, though...


Bye Bye--General Lee

Interesting reading yesterday where lameduck Overstar says "Hell No" to consolidation as it will reduce competition. He cites routes between MSP/DTW and ATL/MCO. The man is truly a riot.

Hearings will bring forth the need for the merged carriers (NW/DL & UAL/CAL) to forfeit gate space to lcc's at numerous hubs and focus cities to ameliorate the perception that consolidation will further harm the flying public. At the top of the list will be ORD. The following airports will also be part of any approval to satisfy Congress and DOJ: MSP, DTW, LGA, DCA, LAX, IAH, EWR, IAD, DIA, ATL, SFO, SEA, and SLC. Access to viable gatespace at all these airports will have to opened up to low cost carriers. This doesn't mean 1 or 2 gates per carrier, but probably between 10-15%. Some gates at these monopolistic hubs are lucky to be used twice a day, just to keep lcc's out.

If they truly want to take advantage of the synergy of consolidation, the tradeoff will be more access for the lcc's at these airports.

imp:​

 

[General Lee]

Interesting reading yesterday where lameduck Overstar says "Hell No" to consolidation as it will reduce competition. He cites routes between MSP/DTW and ATL/MCO. The man is truly a riot.

Hearings will bring forth the need for the merged carriers (NW/DL & UAL/CAL) to forfeit gate space to lcc's at numerous hubs and focus cities to ameliorate the perception that consolidation will further harm the flying public. At the top of the list will be ORD. The following airports will also be part of any approval to satisfy Congress and DOJ: MSP, DTW, LGA, DCA, LAX, IAH, EWR, IAD, DIA, ATL, SFO, SEA, and SLC. Access to viable gatespace at all these airports will have to opened up to low cost carriers. This doesn't mean 1 or 2 gates per carrier, but probably between 10-15%. Some gates at these monopolistic hubs are lucky to be used twice a day, just to keep lcc's out.

If they truly want to take advantage of the synergy of consolidation, the tradeoff will be more access for the lcc's at these airports.

imp:​

What did USAir have to give up when they had a combo wth AWA? Not much. AWA and USAir went to ORD and DCA, and didn't give up a slot. And, can you see Southwest at ORD? They have MDW covered. Jetblue already serves ORD, along with Spirit. Airtran seems to like MDW as well. I think you are shooting for the stars, and that is all and good, but not much is sticking. If there are redundant routes, then maybe. If NWA only flies to their own respective hubs from LGA and DCA (which they do), then I doubt the DOJ will force them to give up anything.(slots) As far as gates around the system, sure, some will be given away to consolidate into our own terminals. That is probably a given, since we would want NWA planes to eventually park next to ours.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Thunderchief]

What did USAir have to give up when they had a combo wth AWA? Not much. AWA and USAir went to ORD and DCA, and didn't give up a slot. And, can you see Southwest at ORD? They have MDW covered. Jetblue already serves ORD, along with Spirit. Airtran seems to like MDW as well. I think you are shooting for the stars, and that is all and good, but not much is sticking. If there are redundant routes, then maybe. If NWA only flies to their own respective hubs from LGA and DCA (which they do), then I doubt the DOJ will force them to give up anything.(slots) As far as gates around the system, sure, some will be given away to consolidate into our own terminals. That is probably a given, since we would want NWA planes to eventually park next to ours.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

FWIW, AirTran's CEO did mention an interest in ORD at a recent speech in Washington. Who knows but it is definately starting to look like consolidation will happen. I think DAL will probably have to give up some small number of gates in ATL, but elsewhere? Hard to speculate...
-TC

 

[Kharma Police]

Don't kill the messenger. I'm just saying what's been heard around here, and what GK has already said in the press. That is that if there are assets in play, we will be doing the buying. If we can get gates in ATL without buying FL, then I'm sure we will do whatever it takes to acquire them.

Maybe SWA can buy the gates that Jetblue used for a short time in Atlanta.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Doesn't mean FL will get more ATL gates. This may be the opportunity for WN to get some ATL gates without buying anyone. The airport authority might just welcome them in with open arms.

I can almost guarantee WN will get a few ATL gates if any become available even if it means outbidding FL for them.

Don't kill the messenger. I'm just saying what's been heard around here, and what GK has already said in the press. That is that if there are assets in play, we will be doing the buying. If we can get gates in ATL without buying FL, then I'm sure we will do whatever it takes to acquire them.

I would be VERY surprised if SWA tried to move into Hartsfield. They would immediately face fierce competition from Airtran, and Delta. Plus, the traffic congestion, ATC delays, and "demographic" (extremely lazy, unmotivated locals they would employ) would never dovetail with SWA's business model of 50 minute turns.

What I have heard is that SWA is STRONGLY lobbying to have a passenger terminal built at Dobbins Air Base on the north side of Atlanta. If they succeed, it would be a GOLD MINE.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You are right Max, a lot of the RJs will be parked. Thanks for bringing that up. You are a genius. You must be a lady killer and everyone admires you....


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, how about specifics. With your vast knowledge of the inner workings of Delta, give us your prediction.

How many RJs parked? What kinds? And what companies? Please tell, oh wise one!

 

[Saluki Dawg]

When we started service to PHL, we stopped caring too much about ATC congestion. As far as serving Dobbins, that was already shot down by the city of ATL, so we have no choice but to service Hartsfield.

 

[John Pennekamp]

When we started service to PHL, we stopped caring too much about ATC congestion. As far as serving Dobbins, that was already shot down by the city of ATL, so we have no choice but to service Hartsfield.

Dobbins isn't even in Atlanta. It's in Marietta.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Either way, we were told no to serving anything but Hartsfield.

 

[Kharma Police]

What I have heard is that SWA is STRONGLY lobbying to have a passenger terminal built at Dobbins Air Base on the north side of Atlanta. If they succeed, it would be a GOLD MINE.

Never happen in Cobb county. Too many rich people (East Cobb Snobs) who pay taxes and vote would block it.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

My change for a nickel....

Bet on SWA getting gates in ATL, outbidding Bob Fornaro and Airtran yet again...launching routes not unlike the Denver expansion and really putting the squeeze to Airtran like they did to Frontier....

AT management is trying to do something with 65 more jets and needs the government's help making it profitable by starting the Slot debate. I can't blame them.......

(Cue Kharma)