• NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.
  • Logbook Pro for Apple iOS version 8.1 is now available on the App Store. Major update including signature endorsements and dark/light theme support. Click here to install now.

AirTran Management Still Demanding Concessions

T3700

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Posts
145
Total Time
10000
Fellow pilots,

Your MEC Officers received a full debriefing this morning from members of the Negotiating Committee (NC). We were hopeful that meaningful progress could be made in closing several smaller sections of the contract. Unfortunately, your MEC was disappointed that no sections of the contract were TA’d. Despite our NC’s hard work for many months on drafting a realistic, comprehensive proposal and submitting it weeks in advance, the company submitted a “new” comprehensive proposal of their own that contains concessions in virtually every area of the contract.

In order to give you an idea of the company’s concessionary proposal, here is a sampling of their “wish list”:

* Outsourcing of jet aircraft up to 100 seats
* A renewal of the company’s demands for “core credit” similar to TA1
* Assigning ready reserve to line holders
* Captains forced to fly right seat
* Increased ability for the company to junior assign, reassign, and downline draft
* Up to 30% annual increase in employee health plan co-pays and premiums
* Company contributions to the retirement plan dependent upon prior year’s financial performance
* Contract duration of 5 years
 

WayBack

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Posts
1,153
Total Time
2.4
Fellow pilots,

Your MEC Officers received a full debriefing this morning from members of the Negotiating Committee (NC). We were hopeful that meaningful progress could be made in closing several smaller sections of the contract. Unfortunately, your MEC was disappointed that no sections of the contract were TA’d. Despite our NC’s hard work for many months on drafting a realistic, comprehensive proposal and submitting it weeks in advance, the company submitted a “new” comprehensive proposal of their own that contains concessions in virtually every area of the contract.

In order to give you an idea of the company’s concessionary proposal, here is a sampling of their “wish list”:

* Outsourcing of jet aircraft up to 100 seats
* A renewal of the company’s demands for “core credit” similar to TA1
* Assigning ready reserve to line holders
* Captains forced to fly right seat
* Increased ability for the company to junior assign, reassign, and downline draft
* Up to 30% annual increase in employee health plan co-pays and premiums
* Company contributions to the retirement plan dependent upon prior year’s financial performance
* Contract duration of 5 years

Ah yes, more banter by ALPO, only to fold to companies wish list.
Alpa is excellent and helping outsource their own pilots flying. Look at TSA, ExpressJet is doing their flying out of ORD now, while TSA is furloughing more and more guys.
ALPA is good at making ready reserves sound all not that horrible. In some fashion, they will try and tell you that they're a good "trade off" for something else.
Increased Jr. Manning? No problem, just grieve it! That's what the CP and union reps will tell you.
Soon you will realize why it was a waste of time to vote in ALPO.
 

RIDETHELIGHTING

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2003
Posts
702
Total Time
Enough
Wayback your a dumba$$. mgmt`s been asking for this sh!t for the last five years. If they bring us crap again we will vote it down again.
 
Last edited:

Kenney G

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Posts
100
Total Time
6200
Fellow pilots,

Your MEC Officers received a full debriefing this morning from members of the Negotiating Committee (NC). We were hopeful that meaningful progress could be made in closing several smaller sections of the contract. Unfortunately, your MEC was disappointed that no sections of the contract were TA’d. Despite our NC’s hard work for many months on drafting a realistic, comprehensive proposal and submitting it weeks in advance, the company submitted a “new” comprehensive proposal of their own that contains concessions in virtually every area of the contract.

In order to give you an idea of the company’s concessionary proposal, here is a sampling of their “wish list”:

* Outsourcing of jet aircraft up to 100 seats
* A renewal of the company’s demands for “core credit” similar to TA1
* Assigning ready reserve to line holders
* Captains forced to fly right seat
* Increased ability for the company to junior assign, reassign, and downline draft
* Up to 30% annual increase in employee health plan co-pays and premiums
* Company contributions to the retirement plan dependent upon prior year’s financial performance
* Contract duration of 5 years



When are you guys going to wake up and do what is needed. Look how long jet blue took to slow things down, one day! It has been 5 years now? How about not taxing your planes like SWA. Slow yourself down. Nothing illegal about that.
 

FlyinGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Posts
900
Total Time
Lots
The problem with "slowing down", is that you need everyone to be on board. If the union puts anything out like that, then they could be accused of demanding or requesting an illegal job action. A very tricky place to be, but I think if any pilot group can get together and do a "slow down" it will show management how much we control/save money and time.
 

Paul R. Smith

Fender Bender
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Posts
722
Total Time
4:30
The problem with "slowing down", is that you need everyone to be on board. If the union puts anything out like that, then they could be accused of demanding or requesting an illegal job action. A very tricky place to be, but I think if any pilot group can get together and do a "slow down" it will show management how much we control/save money and time.

Agreed.
 

COpilot

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Posts
410
Total Time
12,000
backa$$

What does ALPA as your union now; have to do with what the company is asking for?

"folding" to the company demands has nothing to do the ALPA, and everything to do with what the collective group of Airtran pilots choose. Not what DL, CO, UA alpa pilots think. "duh"!
 

Lear70

JAFFO
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Posts
7,487
Total Time
4abeer
It's a shill game.

The farther apart they can get from us on an agreement, the harder it is to get released into self-help. Management back-pedaling during a period of profitability looks bad to the mediator, but they can always hide behind "trying to keep costs low in a bad economic environment" to draw things out longer.

I'm sure they believe the pilots are motivated and starting to work towards a strike, and they're taking the steps they can to draw it out as long as possible, make it as difficult as possible, and lower expectations as much as possible before they're forced into a corner.

It's just business for them, even though it's OUR livelihoods they're playing with.
 

Kenney G

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Posts
100
Total Time
6200
The problem with "slowing down", is that you need everyone to be on board. If the union puts anything out like that, then they could be accused of demanding or requesting an illegal job action. A very tricky place to be, but I think if any pilot group can get together and do a "slow down" it will show management how much we control/save money and time.


Your union cant tell you to slow down. You can do it on your own. Do you really think someone is out there with a radar gun on your taxi speeds? Do you have to start your engines while you push back or do you wait for the tug to disconnect? Do the flight attendants see any seat belt signs that are burnt out? Are you taking a more direct route so you can get off 3 min earlier? Take a stand yourself. Don't do anything fraudulent i.e. break something yourself. Is 5 years long enough to stand up for yourself? I would be if the FO's taxied your planes you might have gotten a contract years ago. Just my own opinion.
 

XRMEFLYER

Semi-Turgid Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Posts
453
Total Time
10K+
Your union cant tell you to slow down. You can do it on your own. Do you really think someone is out there with a radar gun on your taxi speeds? Do you have to start your engines while you push back or do you wait for the tug to disconnect? Do the flight attendants see any seat belt signs that are burnt out? Are you taking a more direct route so you can get off 3 min earlier? Take a stand yourself. Don't do anything fraudulent i.e. break something yourself. Is 5 years long enough to stand up for yourself? I would be if the FO's taxied your planes you might have gotten a contract years ago. Just my own opinion.

True. Maybe just maybe a few guys will reach down and grab their pitiful excuses they like to call balls and do what needs to be done. I'm not real optimistic though. The guy I flew with last week gives me hope, but there are sadly very few out leading the way. Everyone needs to quit waiting for someone to hold their hand and show them the way.

For the love of god captains, stop waiting for "everyone else" and lead by example.

BTW Those of you who are already... spare me the indignation, clearly I'm not referring to you.
 

BILL LUMBERG

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
2,074
Total Time
9 to 5
Stand by to have your expectations managed....

Delta did this to us:

1) Put out a total turd of an opener. (no deadhead pay etc. etc.)
2) ALPA said heck no. (Looking tough to membership)
3) Management said we aren't budging. We'll go out of business...(Looking tough to wall street)
4) ALPA runs strike prep (Looking tough to membership AND Wall Street)
5) Last minute (Easter Weekend) TA agreed which contains numerous concessions "But not as bad as what we could have faced based on management's opener". (Pilot's think they beat down the company negotiators)
6) Pilot group agrees thinking "Yeah, we showed them!"
7) Management high fives Wall street saying "See, we knew they'd cave to concessions!"
8) Everyone saves face....Union with membership and management with investors.

Be ready for it, this playbook gets passed around at all of the Wings club CEO conferences as required reading.

Don't get fooled folks!!!
 

Eagle757shark

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Posts
575
Total Time
6000
Ah yes, more banter by ALPO, only to fold to companies wish list.
Alpa is excellent and helping outsource their own pilots flying. Look at TSA, ExpressJet is doing their flying out of ORD now, while TSA is furloughing more and more guys.
ALPA is good at making ready reserves sound all not that horrible. In some fashion, they will try and tell you that they're a good "trade off" for something else.
Increased Jr. Manning? No problem, just grieve it! That's what the CP and union reps will tell you.
Soon you will realize why it was a waste of time to vote in ALPO.
Please explain to me how it is ALPA's fault that AirTran management walked in and offered a proposal that would ruin a wet dream? This is the most hostile management group in the industry and I'm glad we have ALPA on board assisting our negotiating team. Management submitted their dumbass proposal and the union ignored it like they should have and tried to negotiate what the AirTran pilots want. All the pilots at AirTran received an update on our last contract talks and I hope all of them are mad as hell. If they aren't, then they deserve to be held accountable on reserve on a day off, or put on ready reserve as a line holder after they complete a trip. We are dealing with a management team at AirTran that is clueless, however a lot of pilots that are afraid of these clowns. Well, back to the pool to cool off....
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
Stand by to have your expectations managed....

Delta did this to us:

1) Put out a total turd of an opener. (no deadhead pay etc. etc.)
2) ALPA said heck no. (Looking tough to membership)
3) Management said we aren't budging. We'll go out of business...(Looking tough to wall street)
4) ALPA runs strike prep (Looking tough to membership AND Wall Street)
5) Last minute (Easter Weekend) TA agreed which contains numerous concessions "But not as bad as what we could have faced based on management's opener". (Pilot's think they beat down the company negotiators)
6) Pilot group agrees thinking "Yeah, we showed them!"
7) Management high fives Wall street saying "See, we knew they'd cave to concessions!"
8) Everyone saves face....Union with membership and management with investors.

Be ready for it, this playbook gets passed around at all of the Wings club CEO conferences as required reading.

Don't get fooled folks!!!

We aren't in bankruptcy. In fact, we're on track for a record year. The only reason you got raped with concessions was because of the bankruptcy laws. Unions have no leverage when negotiating in bankruptcy. This situation is a little bit different, and you can bet your life that the ATN MEC won't be entertaining the idea of concessions.
 

WayBack

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Posts
1,153
Total Time
2.4
We aren't in bankruptcy. In fact, we're on track for a record year. 1The only reason you got raped with concessions was because of the bankruptcy laws.2Unions have no leverage when negotiating in bankruptcy. 3This situation is a little bit different, and you can bet your life that the ATN MEC won't be entertaining the idea of concessions.

1. The reason they raped you is because they know they can have their way with ALPA, because ALPA is spineless.
2. Unions have no leverage at all.
3. Quit your tough guy talk. ALPA's middle name is concessions. Give, Give, Give...that's all they do. Look at history.
 

BILL LUMBERG

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
2,074
Total Time
9 to 5
We aren't in bankruptcy. In fact, we're on track for a record year. The only reason you got raped with concessions was because of the bankruptcy laws. Unions have no leverage when negotiating in bankruptcy. This situation is a little bit different, and you can bet your life that the ATN MEC won't be entertaining the idea of concessions.

True!! good point
 

DonVerita

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
575
Total Time
10000+
1. The reason they raped you is because they know they can have their way with ALPA, because ALPA is spineless.
2. Unions have no leverage at all.
3. Quit your tough guy talk. ALPA's middle name is concessions. Give, Give, Give...that's all they do. Look at history.
I'd love to know who you fly for...with all your Cessna and Beech experience.

Did Management promise you a pink colored tulip if you did whatever they said? Go back to being a lapdog.
 

aussieflyboy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Posts
237
Total Time
5000
You guys have to be careful with your talk about slow-downs and the like on a forum like this.
There have been many cases where the people who run the aviation forums have been subpoenaed for the identity of members to take them to task over their postings regarding job actions.

If AirTran pilots were to slow down their operations the AirTran management could easily ascertain the identity of people who encouraged such an action on a forum such as this.

Be careful what you post. You never know who's reading it and what the repercussions might be.
 

WayBack

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Posts
1,153
Total Time
2.4
I'd love to know who you fly for...with all your Cessna and Beech experience.

Did Management promise you a pink colored tulip if you did whatever they said? Go back to being a lapdog.

I'm sorry all that Beech time doesn't equate to your massive DashTrash time. How does that make me pro management? Because I see BS in ALPO and call it? Not my fault you you buy into their crap just like you do when Hussien Obama talks.
So back to making cute little kitty cats as your avatar, princess buttercup.
 
Top