Airtran job

[27 driver]

Capt Jeff,
I am certain that no TA will pass without raises and QOL increases for everyone, including Capt's. Fo's will see a higher percentage increase because we are that much farther from industry standard. I am still optimistic that it will get better here if we get a new TA. At least until negotiations role around next time. If not I will be one of those bailing for greener pastures. You will get to break in a whole new set of newbies. ;-)

 

[V1rowt8]

Congrats on the class. I can tell yo unequivocally that everyone is expecting a raise. I don't think that management disputes that. They just seem to better at playing the game the this pilot group is. I have not been here that long so I can't tell you when the shift started. I can tell you that it has become much worse since I returned from furlough. The pilot group is pissed off and fed up with the BS. As far as flying by the book... when ever that happens the company fires a few guys and everybody falls back in line. Manage by intimidation. Ask Lear 70 about his story. I don't know the guy but am familiar with his story and will definitely buy him a beer when he returns. From talking to the more senior guys it used to be a great place to work. I think it still can be but as a few have mentioned it might take a strike to do it. I personally don't think that our MEC will bring us a POS TA to sign, but who knows. People's expectations get higher every day this drags out. If that happens it will be status quo again as we clean house and start over. Another few years of TA 2001. If that happens this will be a miserable place to work for the unforeseeably future. The bright side of that is when the hiring starts back up in 2013 and beyond there will be "a giant sucking sound of FO's leaving this company" and you may gain seniority fast. :uzi: For now come to class with a good attitude, play the game. The shiny new airline smell will where off soon and you will have to embrace the suck. Good luck

Thanks all for the info all. This is what my wife were discussing is the long run benefits as well as the short run. Looks like the long run benefits are going to outweigh the short run sacrifices.

 

[27 driver]

Thanks all for the info all. This is what my wife were discussing is the long run benefits as well as the short run. Looks like the long run benefits are going to outweigh the short run sacrifices.

I hope so my friend. As I said give it a shot. There will be other opportunities in a few years when the 65'ers start their mass exodus. Airtran will either be better or a stepping stone. This is by far the easiest aviation job I have ever worked being a former freight dawg. If you live in ATL your life will be a lot easier, but don't uproot the fam until things are a bit more stable. Time will tell what is going to happen. As Capt Jeff said, we may have to take this to a strike to get a contract. I sincerely hope not, but you never know. If you come here good luck. Training is not hard and they are very fair. Don't show up unprepared as they will not like that. Lets hope by the time you finish training you get a nice raise.
Cheers bud.

 

[Lear70]

There is a rumor that the cooling off period will begin in March.

I don't think so...

We'll likely get a Strike Authorization vote sometime in mid-Feb (Happy V.D., can you feel the love?), 30 days to take the vote is the result in sometime in March, and we go to the Mediator and ask for release.

The Mediator says No, and probably schedules a largely-increased mediation schedule over the next 90 days (takes us to mid-June). At THAT point, if we haven't progressed enough, we ask again. We probably get a last bunch of sessions over the next 30 days after that to try to get us to an agreement (takes us to mid-July). If the company still refuses to budge, we finally get a cooling off period to start mid-July and ending sometime mid-August, which would be the strike deadline. (this is my best guess, but mirrors what the NMB has done in the past with other airlines).

Why will the Mediator keep trying to get us to the table? That's his job. He is supposed to keep the process working, no matter what, until it's obvious it's just not going to work.

As far as my personal situation, can't really talk about it, I go to arbitration on Feb 15th and 16th (2 weeks), but you can do a search under my posts in the Sep-Oct 2007 time range to get an idea...

 

[Lear70]

As far as flying by the book... when ever that happens the company fires a few guys and everybody falls back in line. Manage by intimidation. Ask Lear 70 about his story. I don't know the guy but am familiar with his story and will definitely buy him a beer when he returns.

Thanks, I appreciate it, although that may be a while still... you would not BELIEVE the options a company has to delay things, even AFTER Arbitration if they lose... this has been a very eye-opening experience to the power of management when it comes to the RLA.

 

[Colonel Savage]

... Fly now, grieve later and when you caught them doing something really illegal they would drop it. Now you get a call from a 70 year old scab that threatens your job...

They have 70 year olds in management?

 

[Captain Jeff]

They have 70 year olds in management?

Yes. As well as the one in the training dept.

 

[j41driver]

No one thinks it will be a real improvement, just different than what we have now.

Speak for yourself. It better have real improvements, and plenty of them, or it won't pass.

 

[maxblast72]

Considering Airtran is about to announce their best year ever (around $130 million net profit) on Wednesday and have over $550 million cash in the bank, I don't think too many pilots will be voting for a TA with "no real improvements".

According to the latest proxy statement issued by Airtran, the 15 executive officers and directors of Airtran have a combined portfolio of around 2.5 million shares of AAI (of which Fornaro has around 900,000 shares). Those 2.5 million shares are a pretty good incentive for them to make sure this place doesn't tank.

 

[Colonel Savage]

And an ever better incentive to make those share prices go up, by announcing more expansion and revenue growth, which Wall Street loves.

 

[maxblast72]

And an ever better incentive to make those share prices go up, by announcing more expansion and revenue growth, which Wall Street loves.

That is true. Airtran has gone from 5.5 Billion ASMs in 1999 to almost 24 Billion ASMs in 2009 (over 400% increase). Airtran is forecasting 3-4% growth in 2010 and 2-3% growth in 2011. S&P says Airtran shares are trading at a discount to their peers right now.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Earnings-Preview-AirTran-apf-2860137807.html?x=0&.v=2

 

[JerryLundegaard]

How many 737 deliveries in 2010-11?

 

[maxblast72]

How many 737 deliveries in 2010-11?

Latest publicly announced delivery schedule is 0 for 2010 and 7 in 2011 starting in 2nd quarter next year.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

So they are getting 7 737's in 2011 but forcasting less growth than 2010? Are they letting go some 717's?

 

[maxblast72]

The slide shows on page 9 of this report shows the fleet numbers and ASM growth through 2011 (2005-2007 sure were nice years growth wise):

http://investor.airtran.com/phoenix...maXBhZ2U9NjY0NzMyMiZhdHRhY2g9T04mc1hCUkw9MQ==


138 aircraft on property at end of 2010 and 145 aircraft on property at end of 2011. Those numbers indicate no 717s are leaving.

The 3-4% growth in 2010 indicates some increase in aircraft utilization and the 2 aircraft delivered at end of 2009 (those two aircraft didn't contribute to 2009 ASMs until Nov and Dec and will contribue to all of 2010). Not sure if the Skywest flying included in that growth number (but Skywest will be about 1% of Airtran's 2010 flying at currently announced routes).

You have to remember that most of the deliveries in 2011 are in the second half of the year so you don't get a full contribution to 2011 ASM levels.

 

[Mikes808]

Im a regional captain looking to bail. Saw the new FO positions. What do you guys think of Airtran? Just looking for opinions......

Im a five year FO at Airtran. Happy with the 737 flying. I do not have many days with more then three legs. We are not happy with pay or manegment. Pay will improve this spring. Will never make SW pay. Maybe not JB pay. Expect some where around $90-$100/hour as 5 year FO. Not a bad place to work. Not a great place. I do like the equipment. Move on from the regional. Once you do you will look back and say "what was I thinking staying so long". I imagine your dream was to fly bigger equipment and long career. AT and JB seem to fit the bill. Everyone wants to fly for SW so take what ever job you can and always keep working at your ultimate goal.

 

[Colonel Savage]

You'll make SWA wages if they buy your company.

 

[Fly4$]

Would probies that don't honor the picket line be treated as scabs? It's quite a risk, if you have a family to support. It's not just your salary you're putting on the line.

Even with the current labor dispute, I would love to get hired at Airtran. And as far as I am concerned there is no decision to make if the group goes on strike while in class; Im walking. During the United strike in 1985 the new hires that walked all got their jobs back.

 

[Lost]

Absolutely.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Would probies that don't honor the picket line be treated as scabs? It's quite a risk, if you have a family to support. It's not just your salary you're putting on the line.

This was posted on another thread...


"My understanding is yes, probationary pilots who honor the picket line could immediately be fired.

Additionally, probationary pilots do NOT have access to the grievance process for terminations. In other words, if you get fired on probation, there's nothing the union can do to get your job back except ask really, really nicely.

In this case, the MEC has two options:

1. Ask the probationary pilots to go ahead and fly trips assigned by the company. The company will have it's 10 percenters (senior captains who will vote against a strike and who will cross the picket line) so that's about 160 captains, give or take. Let's say the company hires 100 pilots before we can get a strike vote, get a cooling off period, and get released. There would certainly be enough Captains to pair with those probationary F/O's but they could only fly a fraction of the company's schedule and not for very long as people started timing out 30/7 and 1/7.

2. Ask the probationary pilots to honor the picket line. You get fired. The union then requires in the T.A. that all probationary pilots who refused to cross the picket line be given their jobs back.

Risks abound to both sides. I don't know which of those two our MEC would pursue, probably based on what Herndon's thoughts these days are...

Hopefully you don't have to find out, and the company comes to a reasonable agreement before a strike happens, but if they don't... they certainly can't say they weren't forewarned."

 

[Mongolikecandy]

Would probies that don't honor the picket line be treated as scabs? It's quite a risk, if you have a family to support. It's not just your salary you're putting on the line.

I don't know if we have any probies left.

 

[Fly4$]

I don't know if we have any probies left.

There will be 2 classes with some new hires Feb and Mar. I am one of them, and i worry about the situation. It is a major switch for me.

 

[Lear70]

Actually, the current number being passed around the schoolhouse is 100 pilots for the year.

25 are currently in class. 21 new hires, 4 returns from furlough/leave is the last I heard.

 

[Colonel Savage]

When would the 75 additional come on board? Summer? Fall?

 

[Lear70]

Don't know. Just what I'm hearing... If I had to guess, it would be later in the Fall to have them online for the Christmas season and the early 2011 deliveries.

But again, that's just a guess. Good luck to everyone...

 

[wood pecker]

I got a rumor of the week email regarding the training center. I hope someone informs the newhires as what propaganda might happen in class.

Dilute the kool-aid before drinking would be my advice and don't get that big 717 tattoo across your chest like the Navy Battleships.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Do the 21 February new hires empty the pool?

 

[Britpilot]

Do the 21 February new hires empty the pool?

That's a good question. I'll try to find out for you.

 

[j41driver]

Latest memo from the Chief Pilot, dated 2/17/10:

"We have been interviewing the last 2 days. We are not accepting resumes or recommendations from our pilots. Applicants can put on the application, pilots who can give them letters. We will call you if we need any information. Please don't bug Stephanie or anyone else in recruiting to ask if someone you know interviewed got hired or or why they did not get hired. They should get word within 2 days of interviewing. AirTranJobs.com is where they can put in their profile and application if open."

 

[Wesb737fo]

Would probies that don't honor the picket line be treated as scabs? It's quite a risk, if you have a family to support. It's not just your salary you're putting on the line.

Savage makes a good point, my gut instinct tells me the MEC would not want anyone to cross a picket line, If we do strike, you get fired, and the company manages to somehow stay alive and give us a contract, we better do every @#$$@ thing possible to get your job back.

With that said ....Welcome aboard!