Airtran job

[wood pecker]

Another way to show the disconnect is I got an email from the union describing why Jan was wasted by mgnt. Then I go to my mailbox and got a generic letter from mgnt asking pilots for help with on time arrivals.

I can truly say that every person I fly with is upset with how the contract is going. Even the check airmen express frustration which to me is a sign that something will have to change in the near future.

 

[Kharma Police]

Another way to show the disconnect is I got an email from the union describing why Jan was wasted by mgnt. Then I go to my mailbox and got a generic letter from mgnt asking pilots for help with on time arrivals.

I can truly say that every person I fly with is upset with how the contract is going. Even the check airmen express frustration which to me is a sign that something will have to change in the near future.

I noticed that the tone of the letter from management was much more subdued than the usual do this or else attitude. In my opinion, the deficiencies in our operation regarding on time performance should have been addressed and fixed a long time ago before we were second to last. Three out of four of the individuals that signed the letter are line qualified, I suggest (if they are not too busy) that they fly the line for a week or two and personally evaluate the operation.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

Could probies who honored the picket line be legally terminated?

 

[Lear70]

Could probies who honored the picket line be legally terminated?

My understanding is yes, probationary pilots who honor the picket line could immediately be fired.

Additionally, probationary pilots do NOT have access to the grievance process for terminations. In other words, if you get fired on probation, there's nothing the union can do to get your job back except ask really, really nicely.

In this case, the MEC has two options:

1. Ask the probationary pilots to go ahead and fly trips assigned by the company. The company will have it's 10 percenters (senior captains who will vote against a strike and who will cross the picket line) so that's about 160 captains, give or take. Let's say the company hires 100 pilots before we can get a strike vote, get a cooling off period, and get released. There would certainly be enough Captains to pair with those probationary F/O's but they could only fly a fraction of the company's schedule and not for very long as people started timing out 30/7 and 1/7.

2. Ask the probationary pilots to honor the picket line. You get fired. The union then requires in the T.A. that all probationary pilots who refused to cross the picket line be given their jobs back.

Risks abound to both sides. I don't know which of those two our MEC would pursue, probably based on what Herndon's thoughts these days are...

Hopefully you don't have to find out, and the company comes to a reasonable agreement before a strike happens, but if they don't... they certainly can't say they weren't forewarned.

 

[Mach88]

Even with the current labor dispute, I would love to get hired at Airtran. And as far as I am concerned there is no decision to make if the group goes on strike while in class; Im walking. During the United strike in 1985 the new hires that walked all got their jobs back.

 

[V1rowt8]

Got the call for a March class. A bit nervous re current contract negotiations, and labor relations but confident that a TA will be reached in the near future resulting in much needed improvement in pay and QOL. What is the general consensus of when or if a TA might be reached?

 

[Captain Jeff]

The general consensus is that a TA will be reached the night before the strike. No one thinks it will be a real improvement, just different than what we have now. This company does not follow this contract, why would anyone think they will follow the next one. There is a rumor that the cooling off period will begin in March.

 

[V1rowt8]

The general consensus is that a TA will be reached the night before the strike. No one thinks it will be a real improvement, just different than what we have now. This company does not follow this contract, why would anyone think they will follow the next one. There is a rumor that the cooling off period will begin in March.

Roger that Jeff. So no one is expecting an increase in pay? Was the company following the contract five years ago? I have been through a couple of contract negotiations and our companies position shifted to mirror the actions of the pilot group somewhat. Meaning the pilots were flying the contract to the letter, taxiing slow in addition to an increase in write ups. So the relationship became much more tenuous, unfortunately. Don't misinterpret me, I do not believe that the Airtran pilots have brought this upon themselves, not at all. If anyone can remember, what was the environment like at Airtran pre- contract negotiations? Does the pilot group believe it will improve to at least an acceptable level post contract ratification?

 

[27 driver]

Roger that Jeff. So no one is expecting an increase in pay? Was the company following the contract five years ago? I have been through a couple of contract negotiations and our companies position shifted to mirror the actions of the pilot group somewhat. Meaning the pilots were flying the contract to the letter, taxiing slow in addition to an increase in write ups. So the relationship became much more tenuous, unfortunately. Don't misinterpret me, I do not believe that the Airtran pilots have brought this upon themselves, not at all. If anyone can remember, what was the environment like at Airtran pre- contract negotiations? Does the pilot group believe it will improve to at least an acceptable level post contract ratification?

Congrats on the class. I can tell yo unequivocally that everyone is expecting a raise. I don't think that management disputes that. They just seem to better at playing the game the this pilot group is. I have not been here that long so I can't tell you when the shift started. I can tell you that it has become much worse since I returned from furlough. The pilot group is pissed off and fed up with the BS. As far as flying by the book... when ever that happens the company fires a few guys and everybody falls back in line. Manage by intimidation. Ask Lear 70 about his story. I don't know the guy but am familiar with his story and will definitely buy him a beer when he returns. From talking to the more senior guys it used to be a great place to work. I think it still can be but as a few have mentioned it might take a strike to do it. I personally don't think that our MEC will bring us a POS TA to sign, but who knows. People's expectations get higher every day this drags out. If that happens it will be status quo again as we clean house and start over. Another few years of TA 2001. If that happens this will be a miserable place to work for the unforeseeably future. The bright side of that is when the hiring starts back up in 2013 and beyond there will be "a giant sucking sound of FO's leaving this company" and you may gain seniority fast. :uzi: For now come to class with a good attitude, play the game. The shiny new airline smell will where off soon and you will have to embrace the suck. Good luck

 

[Captain Jeff]

The f/os will get an increase, nothing will pass with out it. As far as what it was like before contract negotiation? That was 2004 or 5. When the contract was signed in 2001, the company loosly followed it.... Fly now, grieve later and when you caught them doing something really illegal they would drop it. Now you get a call from a 70 year old scab that threatens your job. Most of the management team worked for Frank Lorenzo and it shows. The longer you wrk here the more you hate it. It seems to take 3 or 4 years after being hired and/or upgrading to be misserable. The upside is if the industry turns around and others start hiring there will be a lot of mvement on the seniority list.

I know none of that is what you wanted to hear, but I sit next to guys that should have looked before leaping to airtran every week. Good luck and I hope you make the right decision.

 

[27 driver]

Capt Jeff,
I am certain that no TA will pass without raises and QOL increases for everyone, including Capt's. Fo's will see a higher percentage increase because we are that much farther from industry standard. I am still optimistic that it will get better here if we get a new TA. At least until negotiations role around next time. If not I will be one of those bailing for greener pastures. You will get to break in a whole new set of newbies. ;-)

 

[V1rowt8]

Congrats on the class. I can tell yo unequivocally that everyone is expecting a raise. I don't think that management disputes that. They just seem to better at playing the game the this pilot group is. I have not been here that long so I can't tell you when the shift started. I can tell you that it has become much worse since I returned from furlough. The pilot group is pissed off and fed up with the BS. As far as flying by the book... when ever that happens the company fires a few guys and everybody falls back in line. Manage by intimidation. Ask Lear 70 about his story. I don't know the guy but am familiar with his story and will definitely buy him a beer when he returns. From talking to the more senior guys it used to be a great place to work. I think it still can be but as a few have mentioned it might take a strike to do it. I personally don't think that our MEC will bring us a POS TA to sign, but who knows. People's expectations get higher every day this drags out. If that happens it will be status quo again as we clean house and start over. Another few years of TA 2001. If that happens this will be a miserable place to work for the unforeseeably future. The bright side of that is when the hiring starts back up in 2013 and beyond there will be "a giant sucking sound of FO's leaving this company" and you may gain seniority fast. :uzi: For now come to class with a good attitude, play the game. The shiny new airline smell will where off soon and you will have to embrace the suck. Good luck

Thanks all for the info all. This is what my wife were discussing is the long run benefits as well as the short run. Looks like the long run benefits are going to outweigh the short run sacrifices.

 

[27 driver]

Thanks all for the info all. This is what my wife were discussing is the long run benefits as well as the short run. Looks like the long run benefits are going to outweigh the short run sacrifices.

I hope so my friend. As I said give it a shot. There will be other opportunities in a few years when the 65'ers start their mass exodus. Airtran will either be better or a stepping stone. This is by far the easiest aviation job I have ever worked being a former freight dawg. If you live in ATL your life will be a lot easier, but don't uproot the fam until things are a bit more stable. Time will tell what is going to happen. As Capt Jeff said, we may have to take this to a strike to get a contract. I sincerely hope not, but you never know. If you come here good luck. Training is not hard and they are very fair. Don't show up unprepared as they will not like that. Lets hope by the time you finish training you get a nice raise.
Cheers bud.

 

[Lear70]

There is a rumor that the cooling off period will begin in March.

I don't think so...

We'll likely get a Strike Authorization vote sometime in mid-Feb (Happy V.D., can you feel the love?), 30 days to take the vote is the result in sometime in March, and we go to the Mediator and ask for release.

The Mediator says No, and probably schedules a largely-increased mediation schedule over the next 90 days (takes us to mid-June). At THAT point, if we haven't progressed enough, we ask again. We probably get a last bunch of sessions over the next 30 days after that to try to get us to an agreement (takes us to mid-July). If the company still refuses to budge, we finally get a cooling off period to start mid-July and ending sometime mid-August, which would be the strike deadline. (this is my best guess, but mirrors what the NMB has done in the past with other airlines).

Why will the Mediator keep trying to get us to the table? That's his job. He is supposed to keep the process working, no matter what, until it's obvious it's just not going to work.

As far as my personal situation, can't really talk about it, I go to arbitration on Feb 15th and 16th (2 weeks), but you can do a search under my posts in the Sep-Oct 2007 time range to get an idea...

 

[Lear70]

As far as flying by the book... when ever that happens the company fires a few guys and everybody falls back in line. Manage by intimidation. Ask Lear 70 about his story. I don't know the guy but am familiar with his story and will definitely buy him a beer when he returns.

Thanks, I appreciate it, although that may be a while still... you would not BELIEVE the options a company has to delay things, even AFTER Arbitration if they lose... this has been a very eye-opening experience to the power of management when it comes to the RLA.

 

[Colonel Savage]

... Fly now, grieve later and when you caught them doing something really illegal they would drop it. Now you get a call from a 70 year old scab that threatens your job...

They have 70 year olds in management?

 

[Captain Jeff]

They have 70 year olds in management?

Yes. As well as the one in the training dept.

 

[j41driver]

No one thinks it will be a real improvement, just different than what we have now.

Speak for yourself. It better have real improvements, and plenty of them, or it won't pass.

 

[maxblast72]

Considering Airtran is about to announce their best year ever (around $130 million net profit) on Wednesday and have over $550 million cash in the bank, I don't think too many pilots will be voting for a TA with "no real improvements".

According to the latest proxy statement issued by Airtran, the 15 executive officers and directors of Airtran have a combined portfolio of around 2.5 million shares of AAI (of which Fornaro has around 900,000 shares). Those 2.5 million shares are a pretty good incentive for them to make sure this place doesn't tank.

 

[Colonel Savage]

And an ever better incentive to make those share prices go up, by announcing more expansion and revenue growth, which Wall Street loves.