Airtran Hiring news?

[livintheredream]

You are an idiot if you come here!

Worst corp. culture ever!

I agree. The above guy rants about ASM's and this and that. It is all funded by the hard work of the pilots. I flew with a guy the other day that said " you are lucky that airtran is so inefficient otherwise they would not have recalled you guys" I crap you not. There is no respect here, and there never will be. They burned that bridge they had and it will never be rebuild.

 

[humveedriver]

737-800's, depending on what happens with negotiations, I'm sure.

If you remember in T.A.'s 1 & 2, they were trying to make the -800 fall into the SNB category with the new pay rates.

If we can get something close to Alaska pay rates w/o giving away all of our soft time, then I think thats not concessionary. To have the 717 (117 pax) pay the same as the 737-700/800 is a good thing. Looking at Jet Blue they have two seperate A/C scales, and Alaska has one. I'm happier with one big pay raise for all, than clinging to the notion that a select few pilots get their 13% override for 800 flying. I think it's a matter of perspective.

 

[maxblast72]

The above guy rants about ASM's and this and that.

Never let historical factual data and projections from a CFO to Wall Street (who has a little more inside knowledge than a line pilot) get in the way of a good discussion.

 

[DonVerita]

If we can get something close to Alaska pay rates w/o giving away all of our soft time, then I think thats not concessionary. To have the 717 (117 pax) pay the same as the 737-700/800 is a good thing. Looking at Jet Blue they have two seperate A/C scales, and Alaska has one. I'm happier with one big pay raise for all, than clinging to the notion that a select few pilots get their 13% override for 800 flying. I think it's a matter of perspective.

So what would you say then if we got 787's? A negotiated single pay scale now could burn you down the road if you get bigger equipment.

It is best to get paid more to fly bigger aircraft. That allows for those who have weathered the storm so to speak (aka: Seniority) to reap the benefits of sharing in the increased revenue that Management gets from having more seats to sell on a larger aircraft.

 

[DonVerita]

There is no respect here, and there never will be. They burned that bridge they had and it will never be rebuild.

Don't think for a minute that the corporate culture around here can NEVER be changed. It can. Oh yeah...and in a big way.

It's called S-T-R-I-K-E !!

 

[JerryLundegaard]

It's a lot easier to maintain a positive corporate culture than it is to destroy one and then try to rebuild it.

 

[humveedriver]

So what would you say then if we got 787's? A negotiated single pay scale now could burn you down the road if you get bigger equipment.

It is best to get paid more to fly bigger aircraft. That allows for those who have weathered the storm so to speak (aka: Seniority) to reap the benefits of sharing in the increased revenue that Management gets from having more seats to sell on a larger aircraft.

I think in this instance, it would serve the most senior pilots at FL to give up 800/13%, for a solid pay raise on the 717. We will keep the 717 for the next 10 years, they wouldn't have to go to training (most don't want to give up 3 months at 70hrs). We would have only a handful of 800's, your schedule might not be all 800 flying. I wouldn't want to give up LNB pay outright, but this just isn't a showstopper for me in our next contract.

 

[27 driver]

So what would you say then if we got 787's? A negotiated single pay scale now could burn you down the road if you get bigger equipment.

It is best to get paid more to fly bigger aircraft. That allows for those who have weathered the storm so to speak (aka: Seniority) to reap the benefits of sharing in the increased revenue that Management gets from having more seats to sell on a larger aircraft.

I see your point, but I don't think that will work here. I believe there are way more 717 pilots than 737 pilots. Seniority has it's benefits, but so does the majority. As far as 787's go, we will be 3 contracts down the road before that ever happens. Comparing the 71 to the 73 is not like NB to WB. I don't want different pay rates and I would venture to say that management doesn't want that either. Can you imagine the amount of training costs if the rates are greater on the 737.

 

[DonVerita]

Training costs are not our problem. They are an inherent part of doing business. If single pay rate works so great, why aren't they in effect at American, Delta, United, Continental, US Airways, etc.? But if that's what you believe then fine, make all payrates starting at $200/hr. at Year 2 and then going up from there at 6% per year. That should protect you fairly well if we get widebodies.

27 Driver - you are selling yourself and the pilot group short if you think that widebodies are 3 contracts down the road. You have no crystal ball. They could start arriving next month so to speak if the opportunity presented itself. I hope you are not one of the few pilots around here that just want to be "average" with an "average contract". It is thinking like that that will keep you, well...average. Management loves that kind of attitude. Do you think that Management's pay, and especially bonuses, at this airline are "average"? No. Then why should your pay, work rules, QOL, and benefits be "average"?

 

[27 driver]

Training costs are not our problem. They are an inherent part of doing business. If single pay rate works so great, why aren't they in effect at American, Delta, United, Continental, US Airways, etc.? But if that's what you believe then fine, make all payrates starting at $200/hr. at Year 2 and then going up from there at 6% per year. That should protect you fairly well if we get widebodies.

27 Driver - you are selling yourself and the pilot group short if you think that widebodies are 3 contracts down the road. You have no crystal ball. They could start arriving next month so to speak if the opportunity presented itself. I hope you are not one of the few pilots around here that just want to be "average" with an "average contract". It is thinking like that that will keep you, well...average. Management loves that kind of attitude. Do you think that Management's pay, and especially bonuses, at this airline are "average"? No. Then why should your pay, work rules, QOL, and benefits be "average"?

That is not what I was saying at all. I am not now nor have I ever sold this pilot group short. It was the group that voted in contract 2001 that did that. My pay is well below industry standard. I simply stated that differing pay rates probably will not be voted in as the majority of the pilots here are on the 717. That may change if both tails are compensated fairly. As far as training costs go I believe that a greater rate on the 73 would cause a huge amount of training events. That is something management here doesn't want. Yes it is the cost of doing business, I understand that. I have played at 4 different airlines.

Comparing Airtran to the Legacy carriers is not apples to apples. There can be language in place that deals with larger aircraft.

I don't want to just be average but if you think we will get LUV rates you need to submit to a drug test. I for one will look at the sched, Res rules and other QOL issues just as much as pay rates. Compensation is only one section of the new contract. The face of this airline has changed over the last 5 years or so. There is no way that a contract that favors only the senior group will ever get ratified as most were hired here in the last 5 years. Contracts are for the majority not seniority. Upgrade time has at least doubled and there is little to no attrition over the next 10 years. Contract 2001 is top heavy. I am sure yo know that. I will be an FO here for a long time. We all from top to bottom deserve greatly improved compensation and work rules. Besides, I don't really think pay will be the biggest hurdle in our new TA. It will be sched transparency. Management doesn't want to give up any control. We all have different things we want out of a new TA and in the end the majority will prevail.

 

[Guppy Guy]

You are an idiot if you come here!

Worst corp. culture ever!

I believe Dante said it best "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here"

This is the worst company I have ever worked for (and I went on strike for 3 months at my last carrier). This place is horrible.

 

[27 driver]

I believe Dante said it best "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here"

This is the worst company I have ever worked for (and I went on strike for 3 months at my last carrier). This place is horrible.

That is all relative. I have worked for 3 other airlines that were way worse. None that were major carriers though. This place can get better if we are willing to fight for it.

 

[Guppy Guy]

That is all relative. I have worked for 3 other airlines that were way worse. None that were major carriers though. This place can get better if we are willing to fight for it.

I admire your optimism and I hope you're correct. I am ready to fight for it and take it all the way to the mat if necessary. Did it once and I'd do it again.

However, this place will never be much more than it is today. Oh, we'll make gains in our contract, get our pay up to industry standard, and have a decent retirement and that's fine. But, as long as the current group of managers is running the show it will always be screwed up. The mind set of the managers is to do things cheap. They jump into markets and don't provide proper training for the pilots. If they can save a dollar today they will even if it costs them $10 next week. Scheduling will continue to be confrontational, captains authority will continue to be marginalized, and oppressive management style will always be the norm. These are management styles and won't change just because we have a new contract.

Don't get me wrong, it's better to have a job right now and complain about it than be on the street. But, Airtran will never be a "good" place to work. Then again, I can't think of any other airline that's much better.

 

[27 driver]

I admire your optimism and I hope you're correct. I am ready to fight for it and take it all the way to the mat if necessary. Did it once and I'd do it again.

However, this place will never be much more than it is today. Oh, we'll make gains in our contract, get our pay up to industry standard, and have a decent retirement and that's fine. But, as long as the current group of managers is running the show it will always be screwed up. The mind set of the managers is to do things cheap. They jump into markets and don't provide proper training for the pilots. If they can save a dollar today they will even if it costs them $10 next week. Scheduling will continue to be confrontational, captains authority will continue to be marginalized, and oppressive management style will always be the norm. These are management styles and won't change just because we have a new contract.

Don't get me wrong, it's better to have a job right now and complain about it than be on the street. But, Airtran will never be a "good" place to work. Then again, I can't think of any other airline that's much better.

Guppy, I agree that this management team is horrible. I do believe they won't be in power forever. They come and go. All we can do is fight for a better Airtran or bail when the hiring starts. Unfortunately I don't think there will be any jobs for a few more years, at least until 2013 or 14. Until then we will fight the good fight. Like you, I am also willing to take it to the mat. Lets hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[PCL_128]

If single pay rate works so great, why aren't they in effect at American, Delta, United, Continental, US Airways, etc.?

I think you would agree that we're all looking for Alaska pay rates in this contract, right? And you would probably also agree that Alaska is a very similar carrier that is easy to draw comparisons to at the bargaining table, correct?

So, with that in mind, how does Alaska handle pay rates? Simple: one pay scale for all 737 equipment, which includes not only the -800, but also the -900.

 

[Lear70]

FTR, I have no problem with a single pay scale...

As long as current book plus the 13% override plus COLA raises dating back to the amendable date plus FULL retro are the basis for the CAPTAIN pay rates, with F/O's tied to 70% of CA pay across the board.

Hint: that's nearly a 25% pay raise for all our CA's and about a 50% pay raise for most of our F/O's.

 

[DonVerita]

I think you would agree that we're all looking for Alaska pay rates in this contract, right? And you would probably also agree that Alaska is a very similar carrier that is easy to draw comparisons to at the bargaining table, correct?

So, with that in mind, how does Alaska handle pay rates? Simple: one pay scale for all 737 equipment, which includes not only the -800, but also the -900.

No, I'm not looking for one pay scale. I firmly believe that we should have payscales based on aircraft size. Therefore, there should be a rate for the 717, 737-700, and 737-800.

If you think Alaska rates are sufficient then you are selling us short. Why do you seem so eager to simply accept Alaska's rates? Why not exceed them and exceed expectations for once?

SWA is a similar carrier to us. They do the same job with the same business model. Please don't use that tired analogy of they are X times bigger than us so they get paid more. If that were the case then American would be getting paid more than SWA. Do they? No. So let's keep our eye on looking up, not down.

There better not be even one concession or status quo section in the new T/A...not one! Every section better be an big improvement. We have gone 5 years waiting for it; we can go the distance to the finish line. Don't spike the ball on the 1 yard line!

Oh, and for the record...I am beyond ready to go on strike and shut this disgrace of a place down. I was ready yesterday.

FUPM
STRIKE!

 

[27 driver]

DonVerita,
I admire your tenacity. You should be on the NC.

 

[PCL_128]

No, I'm not looking for one pay scale. I firmly believe that we should have payscales based on aircraft size. Therefore, there should be a rate for the 717, 737-700, and 737-800.

I don't think you'd find too many pilots here that would agree with you on that. Yes, plenty of guys want to keep the -800 separate, but I don't think you'd find more than a handful that would want to split off the 717. I think that would be a big mistake, and would result in it being nearly impossible to achieve Alaska rates for the 717 crews. Have you looked at DC-9 series rates across the industry lately? Even tacking on a few dollars to the industry-leading MD-88 rate would still leave our 717 crews with rates below Alaska. I'm not too fond of that idea. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Clyde Frog]

If you're looking for a "job", go ahead and apply, just don't expect a "career".

To settle for Alaska rates would be an embarrassment. What ever happened to pattern bargaining? This pilot group is like a bunch of beaten down dogs. Management hates it pilots and treats them like seasonal farm workers.

A strong, industry leading contract or my vote will be no.

Screw this place.