Airtran Hiring news?

[Colonel Savage]

800 what?

 

[Lear70]

737-800's, depending on what happens with negotiations, I'm sure.

If you remember in T.A.'s 1 & 2, they were trying to make the -800 fall into the SNB category with the new pay rates.

 

[gt1900]

Don't forget, AAI still has about 50 airplanes on order. I know for a fact that build slots can be moved forward and backward, so if the company wants new planes, they could probably get some build slots moved up from the current order of 737's already on the books. Ive heard the 737-800 rumor as well, but its not really a rumor. The company already said they were interested in 800's in a public statement.

 

[maxblast72]

So tell me what is not true.....?Go take a look at past history of 4th quarter earnings. Yes AirTran made money in the past for the year but has never made it in the 4th. If on the 27th they show a profit, witch I think they will (speculation) so you cant say that this is not true, will show how financial strong FL is. If UAL can make AC orders while pissing money away then I think FL can get financing regardless of credit rating. Remember they are in bed with boeing.

Airtran Airways 2010 ASMs will be 3-4% higher than 2009 ASMs due to 2 extra aircraft and increased aircraft utilization according to our CFO at last investor conference presentation (sorry you can't understand 2 aircraft delivered in Q4 2009 increase 2010 ASMs when doing a comparison between 2009 and 2010 capacity levels).

Airtran is doing fine and will announce their best year ever in terms of net profit in 2 week (best operating margin ever was still 2003). Our cash on hand will also be at record levels. Airtran will have no problem getting new airplanes financed, it is just that 2011 deliveries will cost more to get on property and each month than 2007 deliveries did (due to the end of cheap money especially for low credit rating companies). With the increased cost of aircraft acquisition and the weak economy expect growth in the 3-8% range for a while vs the 20%+ Airtran experienced from 2002-2007.

Q4 2008 was pretty respectable with a 9% operating margin. Of course when you put in the one-time loss to unwind most of Airtran's upside down 2009 fuel hedges, the net line doesn't look so hot. My general point on first half of 2009 year vs second half of 2009 was that when fuel was in the $1.60-1.80 range, Airtran was posting record quarters even with a really weak revenue environment (Q1 and Q2 2009 were quarterly records). When fuel is in the $2.00-2.10 range, Airtran does OK but not great in a weak revenue environment.

 

[Spud]

You are an idiot if you come here!

Worst corp. culture ever!

 

[livintheredream]

You are an idiot if you come here!

Worst corp. culture ever!

I agree. The above guy rants about ASM's and this and that. It is all funded by the hard work of the pilots. I flew with a guy the other day that said " you are lucky that airtran is so inefficient otherwise they would not have recalled you guys" I crap you not. There is no respect here, and there never will be. They burned that bridge they had and it will never be rebuild.

 

[humveedriver]

737-800's, depending on what happens with negotiations, I'm sure.

If you remember in T.A.'s 1 & 2, they were trying to make the -800 fall into the SNB category with the new pay rates.

If we can get something close to Alaska pay rates w/o giving away all of our soft time, then I think thats not concessionary. To have the 717 (117 pax) pay the same as the 737-700/800 is a good thing. Looking at Jet Blue they have two seperate A/C scales, and Alaska has one. I'm happier with one big pay raise for all, than clinging to the notion that a select few pilots get their 13% override for 800 flying. I think it's a matter of perspective.

 

[maxblast72]

The above guy rants about ASM's and this and that.

Never let historical factual data and projections from a CFO to Wall Street (who has a little more inside knowledge than a line pilot) get in the way of a good discussion.

 

[DonVerita]

If we can get something close to Alaska pay rates w/o giving away all of our soft time, then I think thats not concessionary. To have the 717 (117 pax) pay the same as the 737-700/800 is a good thing. Looking at Jet Blue they have two seperate A/C scales, and Alaska has one. I'm happier with one big pay raise for all, than clinging to the notion that a select few pilots get their 13% override for 800 flying. I think it's a matter of perspective.

So what would you say then if we got 787's? A negotiated single pay scale now could burn you down the road if you get bigger equipment.

It is best to get paid more to fly bigger aircraft. That allows for those who have weathered the storm so to speak (aka: Seniority) to reap the benefits of sharing in the increased revenue that Management gets from having more seats to sell on a larger aircraft.

 

[DonVerita]

There is no respect here, and there never will be. They burned that bridge they had and it will never be rebuild.

Don't think for a minute that the corporate culture around here can NEVER be changed. It can. Oh yeah...and in a big way.

It's called S-T-R-I-K-E !!

 

[JerryLundegaard]

It's a lot easier to maintain a positive corporate culture than it is to destroy one and then try to rebuild it.

 

[humveedriver]

So what would you say then if we got 787's? A negotiated single pay scale now could burn you down the road if you get bigger equipment.

It is best to get paid more to fly bigger aircraft. That allows for those who have weathered the storm so to speak (aka: Seniority) to reap the benefits of sharing in the increased revenue that Management gets from having more seats to sell on a larger aircraft.

I think in this instance, it would serve the most senior pilots at FL to give up 800/13%, for a solid pay raise on the 717. We will keep the 717 for the next 10 years, they wouldn't have to go to training (most don't want to give up 3 months at 70hrs). We would have only a handful of 800's, your schedule might not be all 800 flying. I wouldn't want to give up LNB pay outright, but this just isn't a showstopper for me in our next contract.

 

[27 driver]

So what would you say then if we got 787's? A negotiated single pay scale now could burn you down the road if you get bigger equipment.

It is best to get paid more to fly bigger aircraft. That allows for those who have weathered the storm so to speak (aka: Seniority) to reap the benefits of sharing in the increased revenue that Management gets from having more seats to sell on a larger aircraft.

I see your point, but I don't think that will work here. I believe there are way more 717 pilots than 737 pilots. Seniority has it's benefits, but so does the majority. As far as 787's go, we will be 3 contracts down the road before that ever happens. Comparing the 71 to the 73 is not like NB to WB. I don't want different pay rates and I would venture to say that management doesn't want that either. Can you imagine the amount of training costs if the rates are greater on the 737.

 

[DonVerita]

Training costs are not our problem. They are an inherent part of doing business. If single pay rate works so great, why aren't they in effect at American, Delta, United, Continental, US Airways, etc.? But if that's what you believe then fine, make all payrates starting at $200/hr. at Year 2 and then going up from there at 6% per year. That should protect you fairly well if we get widebodies.

27 Driver - you are selling yourself and the pilot group short if you think that widebodies are 3 contracts down the road. You have no crystal ball. They could start arriving next month so to speak if the opportunity presented itself. I hope you are not one of the few pilots around here that just want to be "average" with an "average contract". It is thinking like that that will keep you, well...average. Management loves that kind of attitude. Do you think that Management's pay, and especially bonuses, at this airline are "average"? No. Then why should your pay, work rules, QOL, and benefits be "average"?

 

[27 driver]

Training costs are not our problem. They are an inherent part of doing business. If single pay rate works so great, why aren't they in effect at American, Delta, United, Continental, US Airways, etc.? But if that's what you believe then fine, make all payrates starting at $200/hr. at Year 2 and then going up from there at 6% per year. That should protect you fairly well if we get widebodies.

27 Driver - you are selling yourself and the pilot group short if you think that widebodies are 3 contracts down the road. You have no crystal ball. They could start arriving next month so to speak if the opportunity presented itself. I hope you are not one of the few pilots around here that just want to be "average" with an "average contract". It is thinking like that that will keep you, well...average. Management loves that kind of attitude. Do you think that Management's pay, and especially bonuses, at this airline are "average"? No. Then why should your pay, work rules, QOL, and benefits be "average"?

That is not what I was saying at all. I am not now nor have I ever sold this pilot group short. It was the group that voted in contract 2001 that did that. My pay is well below industry standard. I simply stated that differing pay rates probably will not be voted in as the majority of the pilots here are on the 717. That may change if both tails are compensated fairly. As far as training costs go I believe that a greater rate on the 73 would cause a huge amount of training events. That is something management here doesn't want. Yes it is the cost of doing business, I understand that. I have played at 4 different airlines.

Comparing Airtran to the Legacy carriers is not apples to apples. There can be language in place that deals with larger aircraft.

I don't want to just be average but if you think we will get LUV rates you need to submit to a drug test. I for one will look at the sched, Res rules and other QOL issues just as much as pay rates. Compensation is only one section of the new contract. The face of this airline has changed over the last 5 years or so. There is no way that a contract that favors only the senior group will ever get ratified as most were hired here in the last 5 years. Contracts are for the majority not seniority. Upgrade time has at least doubled and there is little to no attrition over the next 10 years. Contract 2001 is top heavy. I am sure yo know that. I will be an FO here for a long time. We all from top to bottom deserve greatly improved compensation and work rules. Besides, I don't really think pay will be the biggest hurdle in our new TA. It will be sched transparency. Management doesn't want to give up any control. We all have different things we want out of a new TA and in the end the majority will prevail.