Airtran Hiring news?

[rigger]

help me out here

Why is it so important to have a pay rate by aircraft type? The majors do it because they always did it because it was set up that way when bigger airframes started coming down the pike. What is wrong with a single rate as Lear suggested? Seems pretty good to have FO's tied to CA pay and a % for everyone.

I am not being a smartass this time around I am really curious as to why the multi-tiered rate is so important? It seems it favors those that have been on property the longest and penalizes the folks that have not. (that seems as though it goes against the one of the unions charters to keep everything fair and balanced for the pilot group) Also seems as though it would increase training cost for the company by creating more new training events anytime a bid came open (guys want to move just because they can hold the bigger airframe not cause they really want to move) maybe this is good I just don't see it yet. Help splain it to this rookie!

 

[humveedriver]

Frog and Verita, hope you know my coke/hug comment was meant to cheer you up, it's often easy to let the things at work get under your skin. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I've basically given up on the industry not just AirTran. If I see junior FO's get a decent raise in this next contract, I would be pleased. I just do what most folks do (no scheduling favors, no open time pick up), and go home. I'm not going to fight a battle I can't win (delays, MX write ups). Just let me know when the strike vote is. Thats the only thing that matters now.

Rigger, you and I agree on this, so not much for me to add. My concern is not getting better pay for bigger planes, because I think AirTran's next aircraft order (different frame) will be a 717 replacement. I want anything that replaces the 717 to be paid at 717 rates. I think the 717 replacement will be smaller, and will be a hard sell at 800 rates. There will be alot discussion about this when the time finally comes.

 

[Flash]

Humvee,

no, I don't need a coke or a hug, what I need is a company that appreciates the work I do and compensates like the major airline pilot that I am. Is that too much to ask?

We need to raise our expectations. Shooting for average pay and benefits will certianly result in significantly less.

Appreciates the work we do? That's funny!

Looks like you picked the wrong occupation if you want someone to appreciate you.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Back when I entered this profession, we were appreciated and treated like professionals.

 

[Kharma Police]

I believe Dante said it best "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here"

This is the worst company I have ever worked for (and I went on strike for 3 months at my last carrier). This place is horrible.

Three month strike, must be Comair? I hear they are the place to be right now.

 

[scooby]

Clyde Frog - (ex-military, regional and actually have worked outside the industry) your broad assumptions are silly. I a If you hate it that much then leave, or are you scared about the real world. Afraid you backed yourself into a corner and this is the only thing you are capable of at this time. No inititiative to find a better job and just want to cry to get your way. I do not believe you are held hostage. Please refrain from saying, I just want this to be better. Heck if AAI is not for you then leave. There is a big difference to negotiating a solid contract and making stupid statement that I'll take it to the mat. Nobody wins when it gets to the Mat, nobody. AAI is no where near perfect but get a dose of reality and look around you will see a reality. You do not work for SW. Look at SW payrates when they were AAI present age. I realize you may not remeber but they were a little lower than the industry in fact folks were leaving SW for Delta, American, NW, United, etc. The AirTran Pilots need and deserve a contract with pay raises and work rule changes. A skillful union should be able to get these things. I have no expectation that they can get them all but I am certain they will get improvements. 5 years is way too long but some of that blame can be pointed back at the NPA and its inability to effectively negotiate.

Now get off your kick of ex-military guys. I think you woke up free this morning. I am pretty sure the, military pilot took a big paycut coming to the airlines as well. They assumed the same risk as you did. They passed the same check ride you did at the airline. The bottomline we are all professional pilots and we should act like one. If you want it to be 100% your way then try self employment or start your own airline.

 

[T3700]

"Why don't you just leave" -- What a trite statement! Those of you at AirTran who like to make that argument either don't have a clue about what is really going on at AirTran, or are senior enough not to care about the dismal working conditions and pay for the bottom 75%. The only thing that management understands is the threat of shutting the place down. Trust me, some of us won't miss the place that much.

 

[scooby]

Well T3700 I fit your bill and I am well informed. I am in the bottom 75% where are you?

 

[DonVerita]

Scooby...you are an absolute child when it comes to CIVILIAN operations. You reak of the typical military attitude "just get the mission accomplished and worry about the details later". I actually heard one of our guys say that once. He had just waived his contractual 12 hour duty limit to, "help Scheduling out".

Don't get me wrong, we have plenty of military guys here who have their head on straight. I guess its because they've been here many years and have seen the light. How long have you been here? Let's point out a few things shall we:

1. If one of us doesn't like it here we should "just leave". That's what you said. Ok, I'll tell you what. You go get on the phone right now with Delta HR and tell them to have a class set up from me on Monday morning WITH my 9 years seniority intact and transferrable. I'll be on the first bus over there. But...if you can't get my seniority transferred, don't come on here with your holier than thou attitude and berate any one of us who calls a spade a spade. We don't run from our problems, we take them (Management) on face to face...as we are doing now with Picketing, Media, renewed Negotiations, upcoming Strike Vote.

2. You said, "Nobody wins when it gets to the Mat". That's exactly what Management wants you to believe so you don't use the one option you have available to you to cause a pardigm shift; that being the Strike option. Don't think that works? Ask a United guy about that and how they became the industry leader years back across the board after they were successful at it.

3. SWA in its infancy did have lower pay rates than average, but guess what? They had a management team that treated them with respect and caring as opposed to the draconian Orwellian gestapo we have here.

4. Military pay cut - Oh yeah, I'm sure you're hurting after your decision to come here. Many if not all of you ex-officer military guys come here with your government pensions and government health care all sealed up for you. So don't whine about what sacrifices you made. Stop being Management's lapdog and join us in the fight for a better life not just for ourselves, but for the profession as a whole.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Don't wast your breath on this guy. I never insulted military guys as a group and actually have a lot of respect for them. Decades of that culture has a lasting effect on some guys and they carry it around forever. Good behavior isn't rewarded in this profession. Some just don't get it. Opting to take the high road with this management group will only DELAY us further. We can't afford any more DELAY. Let the process work itself out without and more DELAY.

I gotta run, I'm meeting the crew for dinner and I'm a little late, I'm DELAYED.

PS. There were 19 aircraft in line for departure last week, and we were number 18.

 

[T3700]

4. Military pay cut - Oh yeah, I'm sure you're hurting after your decision to come here. Many if not all of you ex-officer military guys come here with your government pensions and government health care all sealed up for you. So don't whine about what sacrifices you made. Stop being Management's lapdog and join us in the fight for a better life not just for ourselves, but for the profession as a whole.

Hey! I earned my military pension it wasn't given to me. Just because I came from the military doesn't make me stupid, and it sure doesn't make me a management tool. The tools we have at AirTran come from all backgrounds. The sooner we start to realize who the real enemy is and quit worrying about where someone came from, the sooner we will have an acceptable contract.

 

[Moustache]

Is this newhire class 717s or 737s

 

[Clyde Frog]

The sooner we start to realize who the real enemy is and quit worrying about where someone came from, the sooner we will have an acceptable contract.

you are god damn right!

I just wish some of the pussies we have working here would start pulling their own weight. Operate like you want a contract and you'll get one. The union has no leverage in this struggle without us making the unpleasent sacrafices. Do Your Job for christsake!

 

[scooby]

Well Don I disagree with your assessment. I have worked for a regional, I have been furloughed from a major, served in the military and worked outside the cockpit. There is no government monthly pension check for me. I do not receive TriCare Military Health benefits. Nor did I whine about the sacrfices I have made. You lumping folks into generalizations is short sighted. There are jobs outside of flying in this industry - I have one. Quit selling yourself short thinking you need to get on the Delta crew bus. No- I don't run from my problems. I find solutions.

No, I am not managements lap dog either. I have never waived the contract and actually only fly what I bid or was given while on reserve. It is simple fly the contract. I have seen plenty of guys waive the contract, I have been offered it and said no. So again, you are wrong to group me into that area.

Ask that same United guy where he is today. I have dozens of pals there out of work. Furloughed for the 2nd time. I as you, know folks who have been on the street from just about every airline. Each guy will tell you, even the SW guys that they all have issues. We happen to have more issues at AirTran - never said we didn't. Negotiations is a 2 way street. I have supported the union and where we are but I also have ben burned by our past union leadership. I do not need you to lecture me just because you are insecure with youself. I am not afraid of management. I figured out how to make life happen with and without the airline. It is peaceful when you can do this because then you get a choice. What is even better I enjoy both avenues.

Like I said before there are no winners in a Strike. Better to find the middle ground. I am not afraid of it but you may be. If you think AT will survive a strike you have not spent your time here well. Do not just look at it through your eyes but look at through their eyes and try to understand them. What you would do and what they may do are 2 different things. What happens when it all goes away. Better have a back-up plan because I bet that Delta bus will still be full. SW will they want you? Same with JB. American and United have thousands on the street and CAL hundreds.

Quit attacking your fellow pilots. That is crazy. I never attacked you, brought up your background as way to get a point across. All that I have said it is better to get this done at the table - that means for me, you and everyone. I also said that if AAI is not for you then leave. Quit pissing and moaning and work together. Look - I am all for changing it and I know it can be better - I have worked for better airlines, you just can't make it better when you blow the darn thing up. We need to find the right way at the table. We need FO wages up. We need better language. I wish we could get it all but then there is reality. Hopefully we can find the solution. We will never find that solution if we keep the me vs them attitude and judge others because they differ in your ways of execution. If we do not find middle ground there are many who will suffer and it probably will not be the folks we wish it to be. Yes, you should save your money, especially if we burn it down and take it to the mat.

 

[Clyde Frog]

The major shareholders aren't going to let a strike happen when all we're demanding is a middle of the road contract. Our sights are low and nobody is going to shut this place down before the pay us like our peers.

But just in case, remember, "money in the bank means courage on the line".

JS