Airtran Hiring news?

[Lear70]

Like I said before there are no winners in a Strike. Better to find the middle ground.

Tell management to come to the middle instead of starting on their end and refusing to budge.

I am not afraid of it but you may be. If you think AT will survive a strike you have not spent your time here well. Do not just look at it through your eyes but look at through their eyes and try to understand them. What you would do and what they may do are 2 different things.

What THEY will do is blink first. If they shut down one of the ONLY profitable airlines IN EXISTENCE TODAY over pilot raises that are perfectly affordable, they will get sued PERSONALLY to the ends of the earth by the shareholders and will never run an airline again.

They have more to lose than you think.

All that I have said it is better to get this done at the table - that means for me, you and everyone.

And that's a great sentiment. But that requires management to bargain in good faith; something they haven't done since we started negotiating except in spurts when the mediator started getting irritated at them. "Taking it to the mat" is the only tool the pilots have to force management to "get it done at the table". It will probably require an 11th hour deal, which requires us being fully-prepared to, and actually GOING on strike, if management won't come to the table with a meaningful deal.

That's just the way this profession works.

I also said that if AAI is not for you then leave. Quit pissing and moaning and work together.

Here's an opposing view: "And if you can't stomach a strike, then YOU leave." How do you like THAT attitude? Oh, you don't? Well, neither do pilots that get told "if you don't like it, then leave." Neither ONE is an acceptable response from one pilot to another pilot over an approach to negotiations. It's unreasonable and doesn't accomplish anything.

Look - I am all for changing it and I know it can be better - I have worked for better airlines, you just can't make it better when you blow the darn thing up. We need to find the right way at the table. We need FO wages up. We need better language. I wish we could get it all but then there is reality. Hopefully we can find the solution. We will never find that solution if we keep the me vs them attitude.

That attitude wasn't there until management started burning down the house from their end first. I submit to you that it will have to change AT THEIR END FIRST, in a meaningful way, and for quite some time to come before management regains the good will of the pilot group.

Anything else is simply a pipe dream, as nice as you may find it, and will NEVER happen as long as this management team continues their negative attitudes and approaches to negotiations and pilot management. I'm not disparaging your military contribution, I appreciate your service, thank you, but I DO believe your views on management are naive, at best, and destructive to our goals as a union at worst.

The majority of the pilot group is gearing up for a strike. Just like the military, get with the majority, or get behind us... (and yes, my vote still counts, my pay still stops, and I'll be right out there walking with the rest of you).

 

[Brett Hull]

The tools we have at AirTran come from all backgrounds.

Except for Corporate Pilots. Apparently in the eyes of the Chief Pilot's office, we're incapable of operating an air vehicle without posing a danger to persons and property worldwide.

 

[Clyde Frog]

BTW, we just had a capt suspended for 5 days for requesting a headset during pushback and causing a 4 min delay.

Like I said, screw this place! I struck before, I'll strike again.

 

[scooby]

Lear- This is pointless. Unless I have your view I am wrong. I have better things to do. Need to change a tire.

 

[Lear70]

Lear- This is pointless. Unless I have your view I am wrong.

And, evidently, unless we have YOUR view, we are wrong, too.

I have better things to do. Need to change a tire.

At least I was being polite, respected your background, and thanked you for your military service.

Thanks for returning the favor. Good luck to you, as well.

 

[DonVerita]

Scooby,

I was not disparaging all military pilots as a group. If you re-read my post I did say that we have some good ex-military guys here who have "seen the light". However, I acknowledge that you may have viewed my post as being a bit harsh and over the top. For that I apologize.

Lear70's post above (#61) sums it up best so I'll leave it at that.

Don't hurt yourself changing your tire or you may find private detectives with cameras camped out in cars down your block just waiting for you to do something that might invalidate your sick leave claim. It's already happened here albeit for an OJI.

Get your house in order and prepare rations to hold you for 6 months. War is in the air fellas. We WILL succeed in a strike for so many reasons and when we get back on line those who turned their backs on their union brothers when push came to shove will find themselves on the wrong side of the aisle in a very, very bad way.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Lear- This is pointless. Unless I have your view I am wrong. I have better things to do. Need to change a tire.

Wow, Scooby that was a real ******************** Bag thing to say. Anything you say from here on out is just management drivel as far as I am concerned.

 

[scooby]

Lear - Your right I was obnoxious.

Yes, I could stomach a strike. I have been fortunate to discover that I can make money using the flying skills I have acquired from flying, outside the cockpit. I question if those that are talking about a strike and that it is no big deal realize that it is a potentially life changing decision. The real hope as I said is that we settle this at the table, get on and enjoy the benefits of some positive realistic negotiations. I do not expect or want you to have my point of view but I also want the ability to express my point of view. We are different. We want the same thing but oppose in our means of achieving such a thing. Not bad really.

I just would hope that we would quit coming up with problems and start capitalizing on the positives. I orginally posted here because guys are just saying how horrible this place is, it is not great, but my checks have cashed, and compared to the educated work force none of us are doing awful. Change needs to happen - I am in front of the line on that. That is why I discovered my new gig, I also have an appreciation on how much money and benefits associated with that people make. We NEED to make more. We NEED better work rules but there are things that will change and we NEED to realize that.

My point is that if your that dissatisfied and feel it will always suck then move along. Try something new, take some time off and see what else is out there. You'll discover wether you really like it or not. Life is way too short to work where you hate it. Just remeber when you polish a turd your hands get stinky.

Now if you feel compelled to flame me for wanting improvements but realizing that we will not achieve everything then I guess I reside on the realistic side. I appreciate you swinging for the fences but when you get a double getting on base is better than a strikeout. Good luck to all of us because we really need it. Best to all.

 

[PCL_128]

It seems to me that we have two extremes on this thread, and no one in the middle (the reality). We've got some that seem to think that we shouldn't even be considering a strike, while others seem to relish the idea and think we shouldn't even be considering Alaska rates, as if they're too low. Both of these sides are ridiculous.

On the one side, you need to realize that you have no leverage if you don't prepare for a strike. Without the credible threat of a strike, management has no incentive to bargain. If they believe that the pilot group won't carry through on a strike, then they can just sit back and wait for the NMB to release us, because they know that the pilot group won't have the balls to use the leverage that the NMB has given us. Not a smart strategy. The credible threat of a strike, and the willingness of the pilot group to carry through on it, is absolutely essential for effective bargaining under the RLA.

On the other side, however, you need to realize that expecting something like a 50% pay raise for FOs is absolutely laughable. That would put our 7-year FOs making far more than 12-year FOs at Alaska, Delta, AMR, etc. No NMB, even the Obama NMB, will even consider releasing you with such ridiculous demands. You would be in the same position as the APA, with the NMB not even bothering to schedule negotiating dates for months at a time. Sound productive? Of course not. On one hand you seem to want to strike, but on the other hand you want to make demands that will ensure that the NMB will never even consider allowing you to do so. Time for reality, guys.

Thankfully, most of our pilots are somewhere in the middle. They want a vastly improved contract, similar to Alaska, Hawaiian, etc., and they're willing to strike if they don't get it, although they don't want to strike. That is the reasonable position, and that's what's going to get us what we want.

 

[maxblast72]

The major shareholders aren't going to let a strike happen when all we're demanding is a middle of the road contract. Our sights are low and nobody is going to shut this place down before the pay us like our peers.

One of those major shareholders is Bob Fornaro who according to SEC filings, appears to have around 650,000 shares under his control (or will when they vest in the future). At $15 a share someday, those share represent a nice $10,000,000 golden parachute. I don't think Fornaro is going to risk that over our reasonable expectations for our next contract.