AIRTRAN has a TA ?!?!

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Hey Lear I talk to one of the BOD and he said we didnt lose block or better its still there. Not that matters anyway, they gave back on every other thing anyway.

 

[Lear70]

Well thank God for something...

Must have moved it; they said they completely revamped Section 5, maybe it's in there.

 

[T3700]

How about the loss of the emergency sick bank. There's 60 hours of pay liability per pilot eliminated for the company. At an average pay rate of $75 an hour times 1500 pilots, this equals $6.75m. Can you say "Executive bonus time baby!"

 

[fmr727drvr]

I hate to keep harping on the reserve thing guys...but that is where I am at and gonna be for awhile....please bear with me.
First off does anybody think we will get more than 75hr on RSV?
I for one don't think so. I have been getting at least 90hrs (usually more, but not less) since upgrade. Factor this:

90 hr month @ $112 is $10,080 gross.
75 hr month @ $124 is $ 9,300 gross.
$780 hr month less.....about 8% pay cut.

What am I missing here?

 

[DougCorp-9]

I hate to keep harping on the reserve thing guys...but that is where I am at and gonna be for awhile....please bear with me.
First off does anybody think we will get more than 75hr on RSV?
I for one don't think so. I have been getting at least 90hrs (usually more, but not less) since upgrade. Factor this:

90 hr month @ $112 is $10,080 gross.
75 hr month @ $124 is $ 9,300 gross.
$780 hr month less.....about 8% pay cut.

What am I missing here?

Nothing, we are getting screwed.. VOTE NO NO NO NO

 

[dadawgs]

Let us also remember that we will be seeing record profits throughout the entire contract duration. I do not quite understand why we give up anything when we have been consistently profitable for the past several years. We should be making advancements not concessions.

 

[BFL370]

No flame here, but how much have you guys made in the last 4 years? would it cover the cost increase?

 

[DougCorp-9]

We have "Shown "profits of around 36 million over the past 3 years but that is all a shell game. They have well over 100,000,000 in cash on deposit with boeing. They buy some of the planes with cash. You can make the books look however you want. We are one of the cheapest most productive groups out their. They can afford it.

 

[gt1900]

Cost increase????? From what I'm seing the company is getting handed a silver spoon.... The hourly rates are a cover up... I checked my June schedule and I would only make around $400 more for the month because of the loss of total hours. Reserve FO's are taking a he!! of a lot bigger pay cut than that.. This contract is probably pretty close to cost neutral for the company... I heard a rumor it was gonna cost the company around 65 million for 4 years.... I call total B.S.. Besides, AAI is predicting a total profit for 2007 of 70+ million....

 

[Mertz72]

It is imperitive that everyone get out and be as vocal as possible, about what a lousy contract this is. We can't rely on flight info, as the only means of doing this. Not only does this TA need to go down, it MUST go down huge, for us to have any hope of fixing things. So PLEASE, don't be afraid to voice your opinions, every trip, every leg, to every Airtran pilot you see. It's time to show not only Airtran, but also Skipper and the boys how unacceptable this POS is.

 

[Caveman]

Wow. This looks like a concessionary contract not an improvement. From the tidbits I've read here this seems to be a no-brainer. I just don't see anyway this is gonna pass, nor should it.

The one part that should really scare the crap out of the Citrus pilots is the scope language. I strongly recommend that you guys keep ALL AirTran flying for yourselves. Don't let go of even the 50 seaters. Ask any legacy pilot if they would like to go back in history and somehow put that genie back in the bottle. Since DAL originally allowed DCI to fly the RJs it has been an extremely slippery slope. DCI can now account for just under half of all DAL flying and DAL just added their tenth DCI carrier. The only way to keep any control is to make sure that if a pax buys an AirTran ticket they will be flown by an AirTran pilot. Frontier recently made this mistake. IMO they will live to regret it.

 

[Dashcaptain]

There was a BOD memeber in the crew room today selling the TA. He was spinning it well and at least a few guys said they were yes. He said that if we vote this down, the mediator can't meet with us for at least 6 months. I think that is not good when they try to put that pressure on us to vot ethis thing in.

He also made the comment about the merger and they are afraid that if we don't have this in place, the company could force the Midwest contract on us. They are going out of their way to give these reasons to help make your decision.

Those are huge red flags!!! Hurry up and vote this in to protect us. I believe that. Please beat me now.

 

[T3700]

How would they force the Midwest contract on us? Why not buy a small commuter and force that contract on us. They can only force something if we allow it. It's been almost a week and no one has seen anything but the spin they are putting on this. I wonder what might be lurking in the real agreement that hasn't been covered in their bullet points.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah, I didn't understand that, either.

How the heck do you get that out of the current wording? The Agreement in its current form is with the NPA. Unless they want to change the name of the company to Midwest Airlines, I don't see a way to force their contract on us.

Note Section 1.E.1. - Merger. It says the "surviving air carrier". I think they'd have a hard time proving that AirTran wasn't the surviving carrier...

They're just using it to try to scare you into considering a yes vote based on that, I see next to zero risk of having the Midwest contract forced on us.

 

[Dashcaptain]

I totally agree. It was just another way to try to get us to agree to this TA. That is one more reason to say no. Not to mention all the other reasons.

Remember, fo pay is still lagging because we will upgrade soon. Don't worry that there has been no upgrade in about four months. At almost 2 1/2 years, I have no idea how soon I may have the chance to move over to the big paycheck.

 

[Murphy]

I'm going to potentially be on reserve for a long time during this contract. A high percentage of the FOs on property will upgrade during the life of this contract and be impacted by the new reserve section. Yes, we currently have a sweet deal with how reserve is credited. Yes, we currently fly our butts off on reserve. Ask the 717 Captains who've been on reserve for 2 years how their QOL has been? I don't see the new reserve rules improving QOL of the reserve pilot. Getting good credit made reserve bearable. Did I homestead on reserve when I could hold a line? Absolutely not. I went screaming to regular line as soon as possible. You have so much more flexibility as a line holder.

 

[Pimpin']

I totally agree. It was just another way to try to get us to agree to this TA. That is one more reason to say no. Not to mention all the other reasons.

Remember, fo pay is still lagging because we will upgrade soon. Don't worry that there has been no upgrade in about four months. At almost 2 1/2 years, I have no idea how soon I may have the chance to move over to the big paycheck.

That big Paycheck just got about 1500-2000 bones a month smaller with the reserve pay system givebacks that are proposed.

 

[AFcitrus]

That big Paycheck just got about 1500-2000 bones a month smaller with the reserve pay system givebacks that are proposed.

I just worked the numbers. Including the door pay loss, 4.5 average day, 3 month average block pay, and the new reserve pay system I am going to lose about 20 hrs of credit each month resulting in a 26% pay cut. What do I get in return? I get 1 extra day off, 13 days of movable reserve periods and 6 "golden days" each month.

Now, I will pick up an 8% (including the signing bonus) pay raise but that has already been spent on COL increases the last 2.5 years.

I may be putting a "For Sale" sign in my yard.

 

[fuzzy077]

Guys, as a reserve Captain this TA is frightening. Movable days off?? Ready reserve after an assignment? Not to mention the 20 hour paycut I will be taking. I have been on reserve for over a year now and not once have I blocked over 75 hours. This means that every month, my pay will be...75 hours. Unbelievable. Please, for the love of God, tell all of your friends to vote this thing down. People are on reserve for a long time nowadays. I didnt think it could actually get worse then it is now.

 

[j41driver]

Depressingly, I was just speaking to a 9 year captain who was trying to sell me on how this mgt. team has kept every promise that it has made to the pilot group and how we should just trust them on the scope thing. I am just being paranoid he said. He was planning on voting yes. Bums me out.

If mgmt. promises not to use scope against us, then surely they won't mind putting it in the contract.

Voting NO!!!

 

[RadioClash]

I can tell you from past experience, after being at ASA, that moveable off days suck big time. Feel free to never plan for anything on your days off.

AP said on the call tonight that your block days, that cannot be moved, will be days of your choice, sure it will. I can see it now, "Denied, Low Reserve Coverage." I am not on reserve but I know that someday, less than 2 yrs, that is why FO pay is still low, all according to AP, that I will be back on reserve as a Capt. It is not fun, we do not want that in our contract.

 

[j41driver]

I strongly recommend that you guys keep ALL AirTran flying for yourselves. Don't let go of even the 50 seaters.

I absolutely agree with this. Add turboprops to the list as well. Who knows what might happen...I sure am not too proud to go fly one again. Also, scope needs to be binding on the holding co. not the airline.

 

[IFLYASA]

Any links for the new payscale? I agree, it looks like you are going backwards with this contract..

 

[md83drvr]

There is nothing good in this contract.

Who is going to monitor this "core" time. I don't trust the company to not short us.

Anyone that is 5 years or less seniority needs to read the reserve section. If you think you might upgrade this will be the work rules for the next 6+ years. We have no idea how an merger would go, so a guy holding a line could be pushed back onto reserve.

RR after an assignment
Movable days
Loss of pay
No protections for reserve pilots

Did anyone see the " Clarified Ready Reserve Rules and pay for Ready Reserve out of base. WTF. Now we are going to be FA and sit RR in BWI and MCO. If the company wants a RR out of ATL make a base.

md8

 

[wood pecker]

I wonder how many reserve lines will have golden days off for Christmas. Do not forget that you can also be placed on ready reserve at the end of your trip also for 2 hours pay. I bet scheduling can not wait to use the ready reseerve trick on Christmas eve.

 

[newnan]

I wonder how many reserve lines will have golden days off for Christmas. Do not forget that you can also be placed on ready reserve at the end of your trip also for 2 hours pay. I bet scheduling can not wait to use the ready reseerve trick on Christmas eve.

I doubt the BOD or the company are concerned about Christmas thanks to the precedent they set this past year. You can be dang sure line holders will be very careful bidding this holiday season.

 

[T3700]

So, how long does it take to put the actual TA on the website? Are we actually going to get to see it before we vote, or do we not have a need to know?

 

[newnan]

So, how long does it take to put the actual TA on the website? Are we actually going to get to see it before we vote, or do we not have a need to know?

The NC is in MCO now and are supposed to be working through the weekend if necessary to finish the Q & A. The TA in it's entirety should be out by sometime next week with the Q&A section attached liked '01.

What I don't understand is why BOD wants us to wait til it comes out to read it and make a decision, yet they are willing to sell it with their souls now with out the Q&A finished. Shouldn't that have some bearing on thier decision if they were looking out for our best interest?

 

[AFcitrus]

The NC is in MCO now and are supposed to be working through the weekend if necessary to finish the Q & A. The TA in it's entirety should be out by sometime next week with the Q&A section attached liked '01.

What I don't understand is why BOD wants us to wait til it comes out to read it and make a decision, yet they are willing to sell it with their souls now with out the Q&A finished. Shouldn't that have some bearing on thier decision if they were looking out for our best interest?

There in lies all of our mistake over the last 2.5 years. We were under the false assumption that this BoD and NC were looking out for our best interests. Whatever would make us think that - maybe that we are paying their 100hr/month salaries!!

I can't speak for 5/6 of the BoD but I know MS well and the last thing he cares about is anything other than himself. He would push all of us under the bus if he thought it would help him make a few extra political points with the company. He isn't even sitting 717 reserve any more (as his senority would require on the 717) because once elected to the BoD he took advantage of inside information to switch a/c during a random 1 month reprieve of the 717 CA seat lock (for which to this day there has been no explanation from the company).

If the rest of the BoD and NC is 1/10 as self-centered as this SOB, they have never had our best interest in mind!!