Airtran gets into the RJ game

[Ty Webb]

This is primarily to resond to a few issues that "Fly Deltas Jets" has raised:

1) "Low Cost Carriers" don't necessarily succeed or fail because of "lower pay" as you claim. That would be like me saying that Delta is losing billions because they pay too much. The truth is not so simple.

In our case, we are succeeding for a number of reasons, and a lot of them have to do with shrewd management, employees who are willing to use a little more innovation to save money where possible, and keeping things simple with a single fleet type. Hence the reason to outsource the RJ's. It made more sense, and it adds to the bottom line. If the company makes money and grows, we make money and grow.

2) Perhaps the problems in the industry could be traced not to the (marginally) lower pay of our pilots, but to the assinine pricing strategies employed by the big 5.

We make money at our prices, but when your company sees us open a city, they will flood that city with hundreds of extra seats, at prices that cause them to hemmorhage money, while we are still making money.

Now, there's a business strategy- it's called "cutting off your nose to spite your face". That dinosuar business model will cause Delta to continue to lose money, until they are dragged, kicking and screaming, into the millenium.

3) Which leads me to my next point- your airline is losing money because they are trying to provide something that they can't.

Mercedes doesn't make money competing against Chevy. Mariott doesn't compete with Days Inn, and Delta will not make money trying to compete with us for the bottom customer.

The sooner they figure that out and start focusing on what they CAN succeed at, the sooner it will get better for us all. Delta has things to offer that we never will, and the sooner they focus on what they are, instead of trying to be all things to all people, the better for everyone.

And you know what? Maybe then we will be able to get more money in our third contract and meet your expectations.

Oh, and last- our concessions (the ones you were so worried about) lasted for 60 days. That's it. Then back to the contract.

 

[dsee8driver]

Frequent flyer

Being a homebased freight dog, I fly commercial to get to work. Just last week I came home from Norfolk to FLL on a ticket bought the night before. I called SW and DL. DL 372.50 SW 151.00. I have also traveled on AirTran out of FLL many times and a few of those times when weather delays has caused 2 planes to arrive at same time I have witnessed Capt or FO load or offload bags because they were short ground crews. I think a major problem with the majors besides their pricing model and all others pointed out in this and other threads is the ATTITUDE of their employees. I have flown on many jumpseats and I can't remmember once listening to a SW or Airtran pilot complaint about their job, they all are happy to be there and be flying.
I think this alliance with AW and AirTran will benefit both companies and as someone else pointed out, Delta pilots need to worry about the codeshare alliances coming up with other carriers in the same markets.

 

[BoredToDeath]

To all airtran employees

Keep all your flying under your own senority list! The only airlines doing well right now don't have their flying being outsourced, ie Airtran(for now), SW, and Jetblue. Why in the world would you let this happen. The only thing your scope clause should say is ONLY AIRTRAN PILOTS WILL FLY AIRTRAN FLIGHTS. PERIOD!!

If a route calls for an RJ to be on it THEN FLY IT, h$ll if it calls for a freakin 1900 to be on it THEN FLY IT.

Onelist can happen, don't let the company do this. Grow Airtran the right way.

 

[Old Crow]

I must add to "BoredtoDeath" you are correct in your tone. The correct use of outsourcing should be to grow while the addition of aircraft are not available, however, this is not how it works completely.
I truly see the use of alter-ego airlines as a safety net of competition against your union employees.

Yes it is a good thing that Airtran wants to grow right now and by doing so adds the new company to the list.

Yes you Airtran pilots will continue to maintain your current status while you watch your company grow by Air Whisky.

Good luck.

 

[Publishers]

Relationships

The problem here is that htis is so much more than a pilot type issue and for all the ranting, there is no such thing as AirTran or anyone elses flying.

One list is not a probability that is going to occur anywhere and it misses the point entirely at this point.

My remarks here are not based on AirTran per se but the whole system. They may not want to add a type to their system, they may never want to be in the RJ business. The cost of entry versus the cost of hiring a contractor to start or fly a route may be prohibitive.

Whether you believe it or not, no one ever does this trying to create an alter ego airline to get around unions. In most cases, the people who are invoved in the decision making for this aspect are in marketing and pay no attention at all to those type issues.

They see a market they want to serve and know that it will not support the aircraft that they have determined is their base aircraft. This gives them a chance to try it.

While i know some of you would like to think that most management does little but sit around and conspire against pilots and labor groups, that is myth.

 

[DaveGriffin]

I invite all of you to go back an reread threads concerning DAL. Count how many posts insult our entire pilot group. Than do the same for the posts which insult yours. I venture to say that your insults far outnumber ours. I also believe that we have shown substantial restraint in not responding to the seemingly endless put-downs………….

I have never intentionally insulted an entire group. If it's all the same to you guys, I would much prefer to stay away than to sink to that level. I'll leave this thread to those of you who are content to sit around in their underwear and whine about every one of those egotistical Delta pilots. Have fun. Maybe when you are finished you can poke fun at other stereotypes, most of which also have no basis in fact.

I am, however, in favor of ALPA and the company meeting to work together to find ways to mitigate some furloughs. It would be nice if we were treated the same way the other employee groups were. That, however, would not be effective union-busting.

#2. While many of the pilots of airtran are fine professionals, and I mean no disrespect to them, I believe it is very dangerous for our profession when airlines are allowed to compete using lower employee salaries as a weapon. I'm sorry Dave, but I can't look to them with admiration for taking a paycut, when their entire contract is already a massive concession compared to ours.

I believe that we are raising the bar for the profession. Unfortunately, pilots who are willing to do the same job for half the pay gives management another weapon in their fight to lower the bar. .

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?threadid=3509&goto=newpost

FDJ;

You have intentionally provoked the AAI guys before.

“While MANY of the pilots of airtran are fine professionals”………?????

You insulted the entire group. You wouldn't even go as far as to say to say MOST of the pilots of airtran.

My question to you is what are the others?

You’re way too defensive about your self-proclaimed record of restrained posts.

 

[enigma]

To all airtran employees

Keep all your flying under your own senority list! The only airlines doing well right now don't have their flying being outsourced, ie Airtran(for now), SW, and Jetblue. Why in the world would you let this happen. The only thing your scope clause should say is ONLY AIRTRAN PILOTS WILL FLY AIRTRAN FLIGHTS. PERIOD!!

If a route calls for an RJ to be on it THEN FLY IT, h$ll if it calls for a freakin 1900 to be on it THEN FLY IT.

Onelist can happen, don't let the company do this. Grow Airtran the right way.

I second that motion, with one addition. Spirit is also doing well with only "inhouse flying". It seems that the airlines who develop a good business plan and stick to it, do well. I pray that our owners remain on the plan.

regards
8N

 

[BoredToDeath]

Publishers says:

**"The problem here is that htis is so much more than a pilot type issue and for all the ranting, there is no such thing as AirTran or anyone elses flying.

One list is not a probability that is going to occur anywhere and it misses the point entirely at this point. "**


How can you say there is no such thing as Airtran or anyone elses flying. If AirWis flys planes painted like Airtran and Airtran is doing the advertising how is this not Airtran flying?

ONELIST does and has worked for many many years. Look at BahamasAir for instance. Dash 8s and 73s flying together under ONELIST. I think Air Jamaica is also ONELIST with the Shorts and Airbus. And if I dig alittle harder I bet I'll find some more.

All its gonna take is a strong pilot group to make it happen here.

 

[BoredToDeath]

enigma,

I'm sorry I forgot about Spirit.

Thanks

 

[Publishers]

Good Examples

Now there are some great examples.

BahamasAir for instance. Dash 8s and 73s flying together under ONELIST. I think Air Jamaica is also ONELIST with the Shorts and Airbus. And if I dig alittle harder I bet I'll fin

Keep digging and let me know what you find. Let's also have an apples and oranges comparison while we are at it. At least in wholly owned's you have some arguiing points. It is not happening there so what makes you think it will ever happen here.

It looks to me like it is Air Wisconsin flying that they are letting AirTran paint their planes for.