AirTran DRC - judgement !

[JT12345]

Sorry, guys, but the SWA posters have it right on this one. While it may be true that a gun was held to our heads, the position of the arbitrator was basically that a gun is held to your head in negotiations all the time, and it's up to you to decide whether the party holding the gun is going to pull the trigger or not (or whether it's even loaded). That's just bargaining. "Hard bargaining," to be sure, but most labor negotiations in the airline industry falls under that category. Hardly a negotiation goes by without the company threatening to shut down the airline, furlough employees, fire employees, whatever. It's just part of the game.

Coming from the guy who claims to not plan on staying in the first place.

 

[madjack]

JT,

Spirit is hiring, 3 year upgrade, $130ish/hr.,.go for it...

 

[JT12345]

Fek it all

 

[PCL_128]

Coming from the guy who claims to not plan on staying in the first place.

Which has what to do with my comment exactly?

 

[JT12345]

Some of the SWA guys are not saying what you say they are saying there PCL. They say there was no gun figuratively. It makes sense they do not understand that. Sadly it looks like in the future they will the way things are going with the pre bankruptcy legacy attitude I am seeing on the line and with our profits competitively.

 

[PCL_128]

I think most of them understand that there were some veiled threats made. I don't think they're denying that. They're just denying that anyone from SWA actually came out and said "you're not going to be integrated if you don't do XYZ." And that's a true statement. That was never actually said. It was always vague crap like "we're working on Plan B" and "there are risks to not accepting the offer." Frankly, it was all very tame compared to the very explicit threats that Kolski used to make. "You go on strike and we'll shut this f_cking place down, you spoiled f_cks!" A little more threatening, I would say. But, of course, the people who ran the union when he was making those threats had the sense and experience to know that it was just BS and not worth getting everyone worked up over. I wish the people who listened to the watered down pseudo-threats from SWA had had that much sense.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Wow. I actually agree with PCL on his last two posts. You nailed it!!

 

[vixin]

The fools on our side fell for the threats also. SWA played both sides with the threats and both sides fell for it. SWAPA got rolled again. That's status quo here. Or the SWAPullie sales jobs and withholding information to get SWA job done. Our association err union is a joke.

 

[PCL_128]

SWA played both sides with the threats and both sides fell for it.

That's why people like me keep trying to tell you that Southwest management under the leadership of GK and VdV is no different than any other airline management team. When GK goes to these silly "Message to the Field" events every year and tells you how much he loves you (gag), it's all a bunch of bullsh__. The SWAPA group should be preparing itself for a traditional labor/management relationship. Not this silly fantasy that people like waveflyer like to pretend exists.

 

[Ty Webb]

It was always vague crap like "we're working on Plan B" and "there are risks to not accepting the offer." Frankly, it was all very tame compared to the very explicit threats that Kolski used to make. "You go on strike and we'll shut this f_cking place down, you spoiled f_cks!" A little more threatening, I would say. But, of course, the people who ran the union when he was making those threats had the sense and experience to know that it was just BS and not worth getting everyone worked up over.

Yup. Ahh, the good ol' days.

What's SK up to these days? Can't exactly picture him in retirement . . . not exactly the "On Golden Pond" type. :laugh:

 

[vixin]

Oh my GOD PCL we agree on something. Not sure what union those other guys belong to but SWAPA is weak. GK and MVDV don't give a rats behind about the employees. Believe me there are a few here that see this. Unfortunately SWA does a good job at hiring those that fall in line and cheerlead. Our union does not stand up for the pilots and gives away every bit of leverage we have to be nice with GK. They are a joke. It is sad that they NEVER learn their lesson. Just look at our 19-0 club idiots. Willing to fast stamp anything GK wanted and get nothing in return.

 

[shootr]

I'm loathe to say this, but PCL gets it. Too many of our current SWA pilots do not, but as the old cadre is starting to disappear, we are STARTING to begin to get it as a group. We ARE a legacy carrier, management does not luv us, and we will declare CH 11 sometime in our future careers. Simple as that. The sooner we get that through our thick skulls, the sooner we'll act like a union and protect ourselves.

 

[SWA/FO]

Wow. I actually agree with PCL on his last two posts. You nailed it!!

I have to agree.

 

[waveflyer]

Shootr- that's hyperbolic BS -
How many airlines have you worked for?
In any case your glasses you see the world in are tinted negative-
Doesn't make for a happy pilot- which is why I chose the place.
As for AT- don't pretend like you weren't pointing the gun as well- like many said, PCL gets negotiations- air tran had a smaller gun, but you were pointing it threatening to do your best to ruin the culture if you didn't get your way (relative) - many of you still are posing those threats-
At the end of the day none of us got what we thought we deserved and we all have our case- but I don't believe in carrying grudges on from negotiations- bc we have another negotiation in process right now and I just won't give my soul to my industry. Collective bargaining is what it is-
Move on, fly well, live well

 

[shootr]

Wave,

I chose SWA for the same reasons you did. Oh, and I'm actually a fairly happy/go lucky kind of a guy. I'm naturally uptight but know it and don't let the small stuff bug me much, anymore. I don't actually bitch that much and I don't vote no on everything. But I am realistic.

If you think anything I said in my prior post is not dead on accurate or at least reasonably true, you're living with blinders on. Our management will furlough you in a heartbeat if they think it'll help them get a higher bonus. The time just hasn't come, yet. Wake up man.